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Discussion Starter #41
You need a carb specifically set up to operate in blow-thru. They're readily available from a number of carb companies. Or you could do one of the fuel injection setups that works in place of a carb.



You use a wastegate (which bleeds exhaust before the turbo) and boost controller. There's multiple setups for both. The most simple is a manual boost controller (which is basically a ball and spring valve) and an internal wastegate that is integrated with the turbo. There are also electronic controllers and external wastegates. You can choose a wastegate and run it off spring pressure without a boost controller with the proper spring but then it will open progressively which can alter the spool characteristics.

I like MHI (Mitsubishi) turbos because they are not picky about oiling and last a long time. Garrett turbos are sometimes cheaper with more options available but they simply are not as stout and you can over oil them. A lot of people grab diesel turbos out of the junkyard (like Holeset and Borg-Warner).



Unrelated thoughts? I now see where you said he should look at other sites. I agree. I disagree that putting a turbo on a lawnmower engine is the right analogy for this situation though. That's just my opinion.



I knew of a guy who took the 4-door Chevelle that was rotting in his inlaw's yard, put in a stock 350 Vortec that he rebuilt himself, his own homemade blow-thru carb, and the biggest Borg-Warner turbo he could find on Ebay, hung on a cheap twin turbo hot side he reworked himself for single turbo, and ran 8s on a 10.5" tire. Stock worn out suspension. Powerglide (of course) with a custom converter. You have to have a little bit of knowledge, you don't need a huge budget or even incredible fab skills.

He did hurt the motor on his first 8-second pass but ran numerous 9-second passes all fine and dandy before that. He got a little more serious after that but this is the car:




I can't remember every time the Rotsun broke but I don't ever remember it being specifically because they slapped a turbo on a non-turbo engine. At least not since they put the 5.0 in it.

I think the idea some of you guys have about turbos is exactly the opposite of reality. Head over to The Turbo Forums or Yellow Bullet Forums and you will see lots of guys slapping cheap turbo setups on everything under the sun and getting results. A little knowledge is the key.
You gave a lot of information and now I understand it a bit more.yea, I have to change more parts like the drive shaft rear end so on. I will probably stick to blow by also because since its still a carb it should be easier to understand and learn. I have been looking at used turbos and I feel those are better because I don't plan on running too much boost and also I plan on making it a fun daily driver. I have thought of diesel turbos, but don't know much about the differences. Thanks for all this though, I will continue on my quest on making a list and seeing how much it would cost.
 

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They're making them in pre-ordered batches.

This is from Fordsix.com:

I talked to Matt (Matt Cox - owner of Vintage Inlines) this week. He has been contracting with a commercial/aftermarket cylinder head company for production of the heads. He is being told that his first production run (I think it is 100, but I'm not positive) will be completed by the end of March (2020).

Additionally, providing there are no issues, he intends to order a second run almost immediately.

So there's light at the end of the tunnel!

Brad
 

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They're making them in pre-ordered batches.

This is from Fordsix.com:
Well that’s cool. I hadn’t heard any news of that in years. I wonder what the status is now. It still says out of stock.

FWIW, I love the idea of a hot rodded six, it’s just so far from practical, you have to be very driven by the desire to be different to justify it.
 

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I think it would be more practical if not for the integrated log intake manifold. Only two real ways to get around that. An Aussie head or try for the aluminum one. I was able to find basically an Aussie head core online for $1400. That included shipping but it still needs rebuilt.

I've seen 2bbl conversions for the log manifolds but I am pretty sure you have to do it yourself these days.
 

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Its a fun conversation to discuss the "What Ifs" and the "Is this possible".

Then reality sets in.

The Vintage Inline aluminum head is $2250 + shipping for the head, valves, springs and intake manifold. Rockers, push rods and headers are not included. These heads are made in batches, most who want one wait 9-12 months to get one.

Add a carb, rockers and push rods and you are looking at $3000 just for the top end.

Raise your hand if you are willing to spend 3k for a 170 or 200 top end.

There are machine shops that will do a 2V conversion on a log head for $1000-ish, you supply the head. The desirable 69+ heads are getting hard to come by. None of the rebuilders have them in stock anymore. they are prone to cracking, so when you find a good one, snag it and save it.

Summit sells a Blueprint 302 rated at 235hp complete from carb to pan for $3300 with a 30 month 50,000 mile warranty and free shipping. Bolt on a set of motor mounts and accessories and its ready to run.

Then theres the Explorer 5.0 that a lot of guys are getting for under $500.

Theres also a steady supply of good running 289s and 302s that come out of cars that guys are upgrading, those usually sell for under $1000.

Only a hardcore inline fanatic with money to burn would go forced induction on a 170 or 200.
 

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If I spent the same money on a turbo 200 or 250 as I did on my N/A 306 I would have made the same amount of power. Partially because I spent a bit more money than I had to on the 306, like $600 headers and an AirGap manifold when the used RPM manifold I had on the shelf that I got for $100 would have worked fine. The key would be getting a hold of that aluminum head and running E85 fuel. I'm pretty confident in this. A T70 at 8-9lbs of boost would do about 40lb/min. Aren't the Ford 6 engines generally pretty stout if you build them right?

That being said, the Barra swap is probably a better idea. Almost limitless power available. It's like being able to do a Coyote swap without cutting the shock towers. And unlike an LS swap, you can still call it a Ford engine for the most part. Hell, I may pull my 306 out and put a Barra in one day.
 

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Dimples
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If I spent the same money on a turbo 200 or 250 as I did on my N/A 306 I would have made the same amount of power.
Ok, I’ll bite... how?

Knowing that just a decent top end for a six is $2-$3k, plus turbo and the fabbing it takes to install, header, etc.

I’ve got a roller 306 with forged pistons, aluminum heads, TFS cam, fancy roller rockers, headers, Holley etc. and spent less than $3k. I did some horse trading to do so, but it was easy and no amount of batgain hunting is going to land you with one of those exotic six banger heads.
 

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Ok, I’ll bite... how?

Knowing that just a decent top end for a six is $2-$3k, plus turbo and the fabbing it takes to install, header, etc.

I’ve got a roller 306 with forged pistons, aluminum heads, TFS cam, fancy roller rockers, headers, Holley etc. and spent less than $3k. I did some horse trading to do so, but it was easy and no amount of batgain hunting is going to land you with one of those exotic six banger heads.
before he died, mike built a turbo 250 that made 323hp for the street. you should be able to find the article on the mustangs and fords website. i forgot how much was spent on the project though.
 

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Ok, I’ll bite... how?

Knowing that just a decent top end for a six is $2-$3k, plus turbo and the fabbing it takes to install, header, etc.

I’ve got a roller 306 with forged pistons, aluminum heads, TFS cam, fancy roller rockers, headers, Holley etc. and spent less than $3k. I did some horse trading to do so, but it was easy and no amount of batgain hunting is going to land you with one of those exotic six banger heads.
I added a little more detail to my post in an edit. I probably could have built a 347 for the same money as my 306, unfortunately. I figure I spent $5000-6000 but I didn't use anything from my old 289, the 306 was a complete separate carb to pan build, like a turnkey crate motor. I didn't spare any expense, except on the crank and rods. Which is the opposite of what I would do if I had to do it over.

I'd have to fab everything myself. I have a chop saw and a pretty weak MIG welder but my friend has a giant SMAW and could go over anything I tack together. Wouldn't be as pretty TIG but it would be strong and work.
 

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Only one of those mentions pricing and it’s up over $4k on the conservative side without even considering an Aussie or custom head.

I added a little more detail to my post in an edit. I probably could have built a 347 for the same money as my 306, unfortunately. I figure I spent $5000-6000 but I didn't use anything from my old 289, the 306 was a complete separate carb to pan build, like a turnkey crate motor. I didn't spare any expense, except on the crank and rods. Which is the opposite of what I would do if I had to do it over.

I'd have to fab everything myself. I have a chop saw and a pretty weak MIG welder but my friend has a giant SMAW and could go over anything I tack together. Wouldn't be as pretty TIG but it would be strong and work.
That makes sense, considering that it’s easy to spend money on shiny new parts, but it shouldn’t be the budget benchmark. With a little planning, anyone could put together a fresh SBF with some performance mods for less than $4k and have it doing burnouts in a weekend. Even less if you get creative and are happy with some used GT-40P heads.

I don’t think the same can be said about a turbo 200/250.
 

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The Barra idea is really cool, but those things don’t exactly grow on trees around here, and there’s some complexity to it from an engine management standpoint. Couple that with the fact that it’s big and heavy, plus cost, and like a turbo 200/250, you’re in the same position where you have to be in it for the wow factor and budget has to be way down on the list of priorities.

Nothing wrong with that approach, but I feel it should be noted in those terms.
 

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I mean you can get 1,000hp out of a Barra, consider doing that with a SBF. Aftermarket block for sure, and you'll need a valvetrain that can rev pretty high, which can be costly. Then you have all the packaging issues, moreso in a 65/66 because you will need a turbo (or two). Unless you decide to go the huge ProCharger route, which is expensive in and of itself. I think once you're over a certain amount of power everything is costly and impractical. Except maybe a BBC with a lot of nitrous- easiest way to get 1,000hp, probably. Not very practical for a vintage Mustang, but a lot of Fox Body drag racers commit this sin.

I wouldn't be doing a Barra if I only planned to make 400hp or something. I think the key is knowing what is practical and fun for YOU at a given power level- the costs may be different person to person because "practical" and "fun" are difficult to quantify.
 

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The U.S. six was always a low cost economy engine.

Ive owned 200s and a couple 250s.

My advice is to mill the head to bump compression, get rid of the SCV and LOM, double roller timing chain, degree the cam, have the distributor recurved, headers and exhaust. If you want more power than what that will do, go with a V8. Its just not cost effective. Most sixes came with 2.80 or 3.00 gears. A bump to 3.20s will do more for you than anything. I just hauled a 4 lug 7.5 rear end to scrap with 3.20s. I couldnt give it away, it even had new brakes.

A well tuned six with a 3 speed and 3.20s is pretty zippy and fun to drive. the key with the six is keep the weight down. Dont add a bunch of weight: fog lights, dual exhaust, insanely big wheels and tires, AC, PS, console ect. People load up these cars with weight, then complain they are dogs.

A 5 speed and a Fox rear end with 3.55s would be more fun.
 

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I wonder if a Barra would even fit height wise. With it being a DOHC, it's gonna be way taller than a 170/200. The only thing I could find on it's height was from this post where the guy measured his engine and it came back at 680mm (26.7 inches).

I seem to remember a few years ago reading a post about a guy that wanted to swap in a 300 and everyone was saying it was too tall to fit. The deck height of the 300 is 10" where the 250 is 9.46" and the 200 is 7.8". If a 300 won't fit, I'd have to question if a Barra would fit. Not to mention the cost of getting one over here and all the headaches that go with doing a swap on an engine where no swap kits exist.
 

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With the 200 in my 67 and a S D chrome drop air cleaner, I had 2" of clearance to the hood.
 
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