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Understanding the 1965 Gear Shifter

35K views 44 replies 19 participants last post by  NEFaurora 
#1 ·
I have an automatic 1965 and wanted to fully understand the meaning of the last 3 sections on the gear shifter.

On the shifter is says P-R-N-LittleDot-BigDot-L.

-Little Dot from what I’ve read, is mostly for starting in areas where there’s snow. So living in LA I’m assuming its safe to say I should never use this. (Funny because I was driving solely in this gear the week I got the car)

-Big Dot is Low- 2nd -3rd shift. Generally I should be only driving in this correct?

-L I’m a little confused on. It’s lower gear? I’ve been using it when I go down hills to give the breaks a rest. Does that sound right?

Thanks for your help!
 
#2 ·
In theory that's correct. But for some reason my big dot doesn't shift into 3rd. So I just use little dot. (Ford actually called them drive 1, drive 2 and low - in order from Neutral down).

I also don't know if saving your brakes is worth sitting in the low gear. I only really use the low gear setting in my other car when I don't want the car to shift up (ie maintain steady speed going up hill, towing something heavy) - but if it isn't adversely affecting your engine, then makes sense.

1966 289 Auto Coupe
 
#3 ·
If you're ascending / descending steep hills and want to keep the engine revs up without as much gas or need to slow the car or a large load, sure, but I wouldn't do it a lot. Without knowing the condition of the trans, if and when the last build was and what level of components were used it's safe to assume it is bone stock and has some wear. The condition of your fluid and filter and any material found in the pan will tell you a lot. An additional external trans cooler is not a bad idea in any case but remember that will require a little more fluid for the system to be full on the dipstick. Best place to simply find how to use the C4 auto is an original or reproduction owner manual.
 
#4 ·
You are correct, the small dot eliminates 1st gear to reduce wheelspin in mud, snow, and rain. Yes, with the original tires, you could spin the wheels in the rain even with a six-cylinder engine.

P
R
N

O
L

Low shifts the trans down to whatever is the next gear down. I can tell you this system actually works very well, but has always led to confusion, which is why they simplified it in 67. The P-R-N-D-2-1 shifter will do the same thing, actually, if you manually shift it constantly, but few drivers choose to do so.
 
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#21 ·
You are correct, the small dot eliminates 1st gear to reduce wheelspin in mud, snow, and rain. Yes, with the original tires, you could spin the wheels in the rain even with a six-cylinder engine.

P
R
N

O
L

Low shifts the trans down to whatever is the next gear down. I can tell you this system actually works very well, but has always led to confusion.
That is the craziest thing I've seen lately. I had to go home and look at the owner's manual (for a '66) to confirm...
 

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#5 · (Edited)
Confusing???!?? You're not the only one. The majority of the public was confused too back in the 1960's when the "Green-Dot" Transmission was introduced. Ford could have made a commercial on the sole use of the "Green-Dot" Transmission alone which is what they should have done, but never did. If you look closely at the 2nd (Big Dot), There is a little "Green-Dot" inside a Big White Circle right above the "L" (Low Gear). That's the one that you need to DRIVE on.

The confusion was so much so, that people kept driving on the "White" Dot (2nd and 3rd) because it was right next to Neutral (Like in most cars) and people kept blowing C4 Trannies...including my own father (twice). If they had ever read the Owners manual (which barely noone ever does), They would have clearly seen that they have to correctly drive on the "Green-Dot" which is right above the "L" (Low Gear).

Ford got tired of fixing C4 Trannies and tired of trying to explain themselves, so beginning in the 1967 Model year, The C4 Gearing and Valve Body was actually changed and the Shifter Bezel updated. See pics of '64-'66 (Above) and '67-'68 (Below). Also, The "Cruise-O-Matic" embossed writing was also removed from the shifter bezel front as the Tranny was really a C4 and not a "Cruise-O-Matic" transmission either like Pre '64 Ford Cast Iron Auto Transmissions.

Just "Remember", Always DRIVE on the "Green-Dot" !!! Otherwise, You'll blow your C4 Tranny driving on the "White Dot" (2nd and 3rd) all the time. If you look at the pics below, You can see that they actually "swapped the "D" and "2" (2nd, 3rd Gear) for '67-'68 from the previous '64-'66 C4 Gearing.

See Side by Side Pics Below:
 

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#6 ·
How do I tell if the PO swapped my transmission from a pre-67 to a post-67 but kept the same shifter bezel?

1966 289 Auto Coupe
 
#10 · (Edited)
Count the shifts? If you put it where we're all used to "D", and it only shifts once, try out "2" location and see if it shifts twice or just keeps you in 2nd gear.



I drove my 65 "wrong" for the first couple weeks I drove it, it shifted so smooth I didn't notice it was only shifting once :lol:
 
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#12 ·
I had a '65 I6 Green dot that I must assume had been rebuilt and either modded or messed up depending on your view because no one could explain to me at the time why it did what it did.

Small dot it would start in 1 shift to 2 then 3 at lowish but normal speeds, rather lazily with a bit of flair to the shift. If I floored it from a stop it was the same.
Green Dot I started calling sport mode:) Start in low and if I floored it would stay in low a long while then shift into 2nd very crisply, same if I held it to the floor and then eased up it would then shift in to 2nd rather crisply. Same with 2-3rd shift it was crisp. Normal driving it would shift at what I'd call a normal RPM but still crisply.

L- I think was normal. No matter dogging it or not when I moved it to the green dot it would go into 2nd very crisply like while in the green dot.
If i wanted to down shift from either dot into L it would go into 2nd and stay there until it slowed to about ~10mph then downshift to 1. Sooner than if I was slowing in green dot mode. In the small dot it wouldn't go into first without a near total stop.

Was that something that could be accomplished with valve or spring etc changes or was something messed up? I was a teen and tried my best to break it but never did.
 
#13 ·
There are basically two valvebodies that are commonplace on the C4. One is the 'early' version used till '66, with the little and big dots, and 'drive ranges'. Little dot = Starts in 2nd, shifts to 3rd. Big dot drives normally, using 1, 2, 3. And then "L" gives you first gear and keeps it there unless you mess with the shift lever.


Later in '67, Ford realized that this design was really pretty dumb for most circumstances, and went to a Select-Shift design, where you had D (which shifted 1-2-3 automatically), 2 (for 2nd gear) and 1 (for 1st gear). This had the advantage of allowing proper engine braking on mountain roads, and holding your car in whatever gear you wanted, instead of what the transmission thought was best.


Generally, any performance oriented C4 will use the later Select-Shift valvebody, which can be retrofitted into the earlier cases without trouble.
 
#14 ·
It’s not only the valve body. The shifter housing is different to lock the shifter into the correct gear. It’s pretty common to find a 65/66 with a later valve body, but still using the original shifter housing. This was te case with my 66. I thought something was wrong with my tranny because it dint shift. Into 3rd until I realized it had a 67 style valve body. So I replaced the shifter housing and bezel to match.
 
#15 ·
What do I look for to work out which valve body I have?

1966 289 Auto Coupe
 
#16 ·
There’s a really simple operational way to deal with the “what do I have” question and just driving in general.

It’s designed to default to the normal “drive” position. When you press the button and pull it past reverse heading towards neutral, let go of the button and pull straight back. It will stop at (1-2-3) Drive.
 
#18 · (Edited)
If you are holding down the shifter button, you can feel each detent inside the transmission, without feeling the shifter contacting any of the notches in the shift plate below. Ordinarily, without bonking the shifter or pushing on it, it will not slip between gears even if you have the early style shifter plate that is 'flat' between little dot and big dot.

The shifter detent plate just adds a bit of safety. You can push forward from D (or little dot) and get into Neutral, but you can't accidentally get into Reverse. You have to press the button to get to Reverse, and again to get it to Park. The same holds true as you are trying to shift to lower gears. The early style notches allow you to shift between D and 2 (or little dot-big dot) without ever pressing the shift button, but the '67+ style has a detent between each lower gear, so you couldn't accidentally grab 2nd (or 1st). You can, however, slip from 1st to 2nd to D, to N, without pressing the button down. You'll still feel the transmission as its little internal 'rooster comb' clicks through the gears, whether you are holding the button down or not.
 
#19 ·
OK, now I have to take a good look at my console tonight and see what I have. I've always driven it at the spot just after N, and it shifts twice (starting in 1 then 2 then 3). I've also found that if I shift to L it will shift thru to 3. It's been rebuilt twice over the years that I know of, so maybe the rebuild made it that way.
 
#22 ·
Flade is right. The Shifter housing has to match the Valve Body in order to work right..

:eek:)

Tony K.
 
#25 ·
"Mine seems to be set up like @DustoffMedic's. Were there different transmissions? Or has the PO swapped my transmission whilst keeping the same bezel?"

Did you check the Ford Factory Tranny Mold Reverse Stampings and Date Coded Tranny Tag on the Transmission first?!??

If you haven't physically looked at the Transmission Casing, Then you are just "guessing"...

Crawl under the car, Take some pics with your camera phone and look as well...then report back..

:eek:)

Tony K.
 
#26 · (Edited)
will do! Thanks!.
I like that you called it a camera phone, which implies you are as old as I am!

1966 289 Auto Coupe
 
#27 ·
So I managed to get a photo of the transmission tag, but it is pretty worn. (Attached)

From what I can gather, it is either C8 652 (which makes no sense) or C8 GS2 (which would imply it is from a 68 comet or mustang.

Am I on track? Is there anywhere else I can check? I confirmed that the small dot shifts through 1-2-3, and the big dot seems to stay on 2 (and if I shift from small dot to big dot it goes down to 2nd and stays there). Yet I can move between small dot and big dot without pressing the button.



1966 289 Auto Coupe
 
#28 ·
The other thing that I noticed when I started paying attention, is the way the bezel 'highlights' with a raised line the places to shift. And without really trying, when I was out Tues night, it seemed to drop right into the green dot when coming down from R. I'll get a chance to see how the shifts are at the different spots this weekend.
 

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#33 ·
This thread actually made me more confused. We have people saying the small dot is the one to drive in and people saying the Big Dot (or Green dot).

Is it possible, that some models have a green dot and some just have a big white dot? My 65 coupe doesn’t have a green dot just a large white circle above the small white dot. Would that even matter?

When I drive on the Big dot and really get going, it sounds like I need to shift up a gear. But if I drive in the small dot it actually sounds better. This is partly why I asked initially.
 
#35 ·
It doesnt matter which dot you use. In either case you end up in D.

If you use the white dot and bypass L you will not have tire burning acceleration off the line like you would have using the green dot.

My 64 and 66 F100 had the exact same shift pattern.
 
#36 ·
I filmed a little video of how it sounds in my 65 going from little dot to Big dot. Big dot sounds like the engine is being put under more pressure. It’s much louder. (Again I’m a noob here with just motorcycle experience so I could be way off). In real life big dot doing 30mph is incredibly loud vs small dot.

Here’s the vid: https://vimeo.com/342510209/876edc08f9
 
#37 · (Edited)
"told me emphatically that the "little" dot , NOT the big green one, is the correct selection for the tranny to shift up through all gears in the 64.5 through 66 models."


Ummmmmmmmm...... NO! NO!, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

If you drive on the White dot constantly, YOU WILL BLOW YOUR '64-'66 Green Dot C4 TRANNY GUARANTEED. That is because the little white dot is 2nd and 3rd Gear ONLY !!!!

The BIG Dot with the GREEN dot in the Middle is the CORRECT Selection for NORMAL DRIVING. It is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Forward gears. THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DRIVE ON ALL THE TIME!


Another reason that people run into problems is that their '65-'66 Mustang has had their Tranny replaced at some point with a later '67-'70 C4 Tranny....and the Gear Shifter was not changed to a '67-'68 Gear shifter along with it. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE NEED TO INSPECT THEIR C4 TRANNIES TO SEE WHAT THEY ACTUAL C4 THEY HAVE UNDERNEATH THEIR CAR IF THERE IS ANY QUESTION, OR IF THEY DON'T KNOW.

:eek:)

Tony K.
 
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#38 ·
Wel, Im now confused.

The PO told me the engine and tranny were original to the car, 1965.

The intake manifold is a C6, so thats not original. No tag on the carb.

I was at a stop today and put the shifter on the white dot and floored the gas pedal.

The tranny shifted 1-2-3.

So I do not have a COM valve body, otherwise it would have only shifted 2-3.
 
#39 ·
"I was at a stop today and put the shifter on the white dot and floored the gas pedal.

The tranny shifted 1-2-3.

So I do not have a COM valve body, otherwise it would have only shifted 2-3."


Correct.

Only 2 Possibilities really....

You either have a '67 and later C4 tranny under your '65, or you have a '65 Tranny with a '67 and later Valve body....

Not too many other options exist...


PS: What is COM?? = (Common)???

:eek:)

Tony K.
 
#40 ·
"I was at a stop today and put the shifter on the white dot and floored the gas pedal.

The tranny shifted 1-2-3.

So I do not have a COM valve body, otherwise it would have only shifted 2-3."


Correct.

Only 2 Possibilities really....

You either have a '67 and later C4 tranny under your '65, or you have a '65 Tranny with a '67 and later Valve body....

Not too many other options exist...


PS: What is COM?? = (Common)<img src="http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/images/smilies/question.gif" border="0" alt="" title="question" class="inlineimg" />

<img src="http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/images/smilies/blush.gif" border="0" alt="" title="blush" class="inlineimg" />)

Tony K.
So I have a 65 coupe and there’s no green dot at all on my shifter. Is there a difference? Or are we talking about the same thing.

Ps watch my video the big dot sounds much different (worse imo) when driving
 
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