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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

In looking at all the aftermarket EFI setups out there I note that:

1. Some of them look REALLY GOOD. I like the look of a round air cleaner under the hood of an old mustang better than a 5.0 intake.

2. They are very expensive, using esoteric parts that may not be available 20 years from now...when I'll still be driving my mustang, God willing.

Which leads me to my question: Is there a way to take a stock 5.0 EFI setup, complete with computer and sensors and get it to work well with a 4V intake? I think there are aftermarket 4V intakes that have injector bosses that could be drilled and tapped. Custom fuel rails could be fabricated if needed.

I guess I'm looking for a solution with all new mechanicals...but the electronics and sensors would be stock Ford. Does anything like that exist?

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #3
There was the old CFI system from around 1986 which used a throttle body where a carb would go with an old style air cleaner. It had 1 45lb injector.

It was not a great or powerful setup but it would work.
Yeah...let me qualify this...something that would use an '89 - '93 Mass Air efi...including the injectors.

Phil
 

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I believe Edelbrock has one, IIRC, it uses GM processor and Weather Pack connections. I don't believe the EFI system is quite as sophisicated as the OEM Ford. Otherwise you'll have to modify a 4V intake, as you stated by welding on bungs for the injectors.
 

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A 4bbl TBI controlled by a computer would look most like a carb, or you could use a gutted Holley for a throttle body and have injector bungs welded into a mild single plane intake for port injection, if you didn't mind the look of fuel rails. I'd run either with Megasquirt. ::
HTH
--Kyle
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That's definitely the look I want. The price is again, ungodly. I emailed them to see if they'll just sell you the pieces you need to put it on a 5.0. Their kit includes all kinds of crap (new injectors, new eec, etc.) that you wouldn't need if you had a complete 5.0 in your possession.

On an unrelated site, I saw this Accufab throttle body:

http://www.accufabracing.com/CarbEFInew.jpg

SWEEEEET.

Phil
 

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Phil,
Depending on what you are wanting out of it, you might consider a Holley Projection setup. Its a throttle body fuel injection system. Theoretically it would not be as good as a port injection system, but I doubt you'd ever notice the difference, and they are much less expensive. I had an older 2bbl version on a pickup I had (previously carburated) and loved it. I don't know what they go for now, but mine was under $1k, and you can find good used ones on Ebay for much less. They also have 4bbl setups for higher power levels.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
what you are wanting out of it,
Yeah...those projection units are going for peanuts on the auction site...but that's not what I'm looking for. I mean, if that Holley box goes bad in 3 years or 10 years or whatever...you aren't going to be able to replace it. The Ford EEC computers are going to be available forever. Same thing on the injectors themselves. Replacement sensors wouldn't be any further than the nearest NAPA store, etc. Plus, you can get stock 5.0 injection stuff CHEAP all day long on ebay or any junkyard for the original conversion.

I love the idea of a 5.0 conversion. 5.0's run great. There's all kinds of parts available. You can get into it cheap. I just don't care for the way it looks under an old mustangs hood.

So, what I'd be looking for would be a Ford EEC system that I could get from a junkyard except for the intake, fuel rails and throttle body.

The idea really isn't to go cheap. The idea is to go dependable with cheap being a side benefit. The looks would be the icing on the cake.

Phil
 

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So you want it to look like a carbed setup but use the 5.0 EFI system. The only thing you don't like is the 5.0 intake and you want one that looks like a carb but uses the 5.0 EFI stuff. The one problem I see with this is if you do want it to be mass air, then you'll have to put some type of a bonnet on the throttle body that leads to the mass air sensor. All the air entering a mass air system must be read by the sensor or you will run lean. That is really the only problem I see with using a throttle body with stock 5.0 EFI electronics.
 

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I really suspect that this is one of those situations where cheap doesn't equal cheap, Phil. If it was that easy, someone would have done it already. Fuel injection is simple on the surface but very complex beneath the surface. I'm all for you figuring out how to do it, but my hunch is that once you get into it you're going to find out there are many, many complications.
BTW, the holley systems are still in production and use production injectors also.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well...the Mass-Flo EFI system is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Here's the quick response I got from Chris about what is required to convert a 5.0 to their system:

Hi Phil,

We have just what you are looking for. Our "conversion system" is made for someone who already has Ford EEC IV, and just wants to change the induction system. You will get....

INTAKE MANIFOLD -- VICTOR JR. OR TORKER II

FUEL RAILS

FUEL RAIL BRACKET KIT

THROTTLE BODY, BASE GASKET, MOUNTING BOLTS, BALL STUD, HOSE FITTINGS, PIPE PLUGS

AIR METER CALIBRATED TO YOUR INJECTOR SIZE, WITH ADAPTER AND CONVERTER BOX

THROTTLE CABLE BRACKET

EGR ELIMINATOR PLUG

PCV VALVE

ASSORTED HARDWARE

INSTRUCTION SHEET

You will re-use from your old system...

WIRING HARNESS

ECM

SENSORS

FUEL INJECTORS

DISTRIBUTOR

COIL

It's all you need to change over to Mass-Flo, except for some fuel line and fittings, and the pressure regulator, which will be the remote mounted adjustable type. I'd recommend Aeromotive's part # 13109.

Cost for the conversion system is $1695. You will simply remove your old induction system, and install the new one. It's that simple.

Thanks,

Chris Richards
Mass-Flo EFI, Inc.
(508) 867-6733
I'm going to mull that over. If I do decide to go EFI...that seems to be exactly what I had in mind.

Phil
 

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Phil, I am currently installing the MassFlo kit. It is of very high quality and Chris the person at the other end of the phone has been great with hints and help. I did a search at this web site for information about MassFlo installs, every one I read praised the system. http://www.ffcobra.com/

I have completed most of the wiring, some of the plumbing, and have manged to retain the original bell crank for the throttle linkage. I posted a few photos of this on page seven of my CarDomin site. I have more, those showing wires, fuel lines, and linkage on the chip in my camera but not yet on Cardomain. The broadband connection at home is out, but I hope to update them either Wednesday or Thursday.
 

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if that Holley box goes bad in 3 years or 10 years or whatever...you aren't going to be able to replace it.
In addition, I've read many negative comments about the performance of the Holley box. So, keep the TBI but throw away the box... The MegaSquirt controller is apparently a VAST improvement and, since you build it yourself (and, yes, based on the projects you've completed, building one seems easily within your talents), obsolescence is a non-issue. Most people are biased toward mass-flow because it's mostly self-compensating for any subsequent mods. But a properly tuned speed density systems will generally make more power because of the fewer intake restrictions. For that matter a TBI, as you are considering, will generally make more power than port injection because the fuel is better able to atomize before entering the combustion chamber. TBI can't match port injection for throttle response but it'll still blow away your carb. You want cheap, watch for a Holley throttle body on eBay, build a megasquirt controller, and scavenge the miscellaneous parts. It will take more time and energy but I believe you can have a very, very good system for considerably less than the kits out there.

My 2 cents.

- Gord
 

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I second the megasquirt. You can use tbi or port injection. You build the controller (mine took about 5-6 hrs). The thing will generate your base fuel map to get you idling. Then with a few clicks you set it for optimum performance while using a wideband o2 sensor. I like the aspect of being able to choose which ever intake you want. If you do not want to show fuel rails you run a nice Accel or Holley TBI. If you feel like showing the rails then you can run the accufab on a torker or victor jr. The megasquirt uses all standard gm sensors or ford sensors if you want. Since you build it you are in complete control and do not need to rely on specialized hardware.

With regard to MassFlo I would be concerned with the gm to ford maf conversion electronics. That's totally a one off piece. I do like the mass flo system but it's way too much for my budget and the ford eecIV would require a tune for my setup so that's when I decided to go with a programable stand alone setup.
 

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There is a post a page or so down from here about a writeup on the Holley TBI with megasquirt. He is a member on Stangnet too. FYI

Also keep in mind these but it won't incorporate your stock air cleaner, but also doesn't have the 5.0 look. A stock FORD or any OEM throttle body should bolt up to that elbow and then you can run your cold air setup or a K&N.
 

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http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/fd/a0/37_12.JPG

While adding to the overall plenum volume, my assumption is that the elbow's primary task is to align the throttle body with the factory air inlet on 5.0 Mustangs. I wonder what kind of performance effect there would be if someone made a flat adapter that permitted the throttle body to simply sit atop the manifold.

(Hey Buening, the guy bidding on that manifold has the same last name as you! :winkgrin:)

- Gord
 
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