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Discussion Starter #1
I've tried searching but can not find my answer. When I first bought sheet metal and started my project I was not aware of using the vert parts to increase the stiffness of the car. Which leads me to my question. I have already installed front torque boxes, but not the vert boxes. Can I or is it even worth trying to use the vert inner rocker and butt it against the torque boxes? I do not want to remove the boxes at this point. I would have to exchange my seat pans and get the vert seat pan but those parts are still in boxes. The car will get at least a 4 point roll bar, maybe 6. It will have frame ties as well. The plan for the car is a 408 with 500-600 HP and 500 ft lbs of torque with a manual gearbox.
 

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You could cut the hole in the floor/torque box and just let it run up to the front of the torque box. May have to make the hole a little loose in order to have room to angle it in from the inside.

I will say the convertible inner rockers are quite beefy. Size wise you can stick a 2/4 in them and they are quite a bit bigger and they are thicker and heavier than I expected. The inner flat piece is thicker than the factory one as well. After having them in hand and working on putting them in my 66 I would not build any mustang without them.

I have pics on my build thread if you plan to add them. I can also shoot pics of certain areas if you need.

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/build-forum/1149848-66-basket-case-4.html
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You could cut the hole in the floor/torque box and just let it run up to the front of the torque box. May have to make the hole a little loose in order to have room to angle it in from the inside.

I will say the convertible inner rockers are quite beefy. Size wise you can stick a 2/4 in them and they are quite a bit bigger and they are thicker and heavier than I expected. The inner flat piece is thicker than the factory one as well. After having them in hand and working on putting them in my 66 I would not build any mustang without them.

I have pics on my build thread if you plan to add them. I can also shoot pics of certain areas if you need.

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/build-forum/1149848-66-basket-case-4.html
After looking at your post a little more it may not be that bad of a job. I think I could slip the inner rocker in from the front of the car through the torque box.
 

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The hole that you will put into the lid of your torque box could be made a little larger to help with the install from the inside of the car. You will not be able to weld to the lower A pillar in the torque box area but you can (and should) rosette weld the inner rocker to the bottom of the torque box. Sliding it in from the front might not be bad either. Welding an end cap onto the inner rocker will allow you to securely weld it in place. The stock inner rockers had tabs that were bent and spot welded to the outer torque box face. Fabricated tabs that weld in place to attach the inner rocker to the top of the torque box work well. Factory parts had flanges bent into the lid for attachment purposes. Make sure you weld them to the torque box lid and not on top of the toe board.

One thing that you will want to check is the bottom of the inner rocker. The stock parts bend up 3/4", 19" aft of the leading edge of the torque box. Most reproduction inner rockers are straight and do not fit well. They end up riding higher at the A pillar pinch weld area and do not provide a good place to weld them in on top.
 

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Thinking I mat tackle the install but I need to see if I can return the current seat pans I have now in some sort of exchange. I've got time so no real rush.
The funny thing is that I just decided against the same thing because of the hassle of returning the coupe pans for convertible pans(I had just installed torque boxes and had not considered vert rockers till too late). Oh well, mine is just a street car, not a road racer...will make do with torque boxes and subframe connectors.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The funny thing is that I just decided against the same thing because of the hassle of returning the coupe pans for convertible pans(I had just installed torque boxes and had not considered vert rockers till too late). Oh well, mine is just a street car, not a road racer...will make do with torque boxes and subframe connectors.
I too discovered this upgrade after I had planned and ordered all my sheet metal, plus welded in the torque boxes. NPD is North of me and it will be a day of driving to exchanged parts and pick up the new parts. My plan is to take my son with me and stop by Big Daddy Don Garlits museum on the way up.

I plan on taking the car to the drag strip and hopefully Sebring. Planning on a 408 stroker pushing 500-600 Hp and 500 ft lbs of torque. I figure the extra strength is both a safety thing as well as a performance benefit. I'm also thinking the vert seat pan will be an added bonus since I may have to cut the trans tunnel for the 6 speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
After more thought and struggle and I am still undecided on which way to go with this. I can not return my seat pans because they were bought with the floor pan as a kit. So no savings there. For now I will sit on the decision, still and think it over some more. I've also noticed they now offer a standard one piece seat pan for non vert applications, but requires custom carpet.

I will not be buying the rest of my sheet metal any time soon. I just spent all the funds I had on a 418 stroker motor and will be buying a Pro Motion built T5 this weekend. Both are deals I could not pass up on.
 

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I suppose it depends on exactly what you are doing with the car. Some perspective, I have installed the following:

1: Torque Boxes
2. Global West SFCs
3. Custom cowl bracing that spiderwebs the front end(makes the front end super rigid, but doubt it does anything for the rest of the car)
4. Mike Maier Strut tower brace/monte carlo bar

With just those 4 things installed, I place a jack under the rear torque box and jack up the car and the front wheel comes off the ground BEFORE the rear wheel. Now, to qualify that, there is no drivetrain installed when I do this...but I also have not yet installed a rear seat divider or tied my flooor pans into the SFCs(which I also plan to do).

My point is that exactly how much rigidity do you need? I can tell you for a fact I already have more than I need for the use of my car....which is going to be a spirited street car capable of the occasional track day. I doubt adding convertible pieces at this point would gain me anything but weight...its not a full race car after all, but its still far stiffer than my 2005 Mazda 6...which is a good handling daily driver for me
 

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After more thought and struggle and I am still undecided on which way to go with this. I can not return my seat pans
Many folks, including me, just modified the stock seat pans. You don't have to use the convertible seat pans. It is a very worthwhile mod.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Many folks, including me, just modified the stock seat pans. You don't have to use the convertible seat pans. It is a very worthwhile mod.
I saw NPD sells a one piece seat pan for the coupe/fastback cars but requires a custom carpet to be made for fit. I am not aware of modifying the stock coupe seat pans. I will have to look into it. But will it be worth it if I install an X brace under the car tieing the frame connectors together? I made my own frame connectors(Daze) and I added two inserts on each corner so I can fab and mount my own X brace with a safety drive shaft loop.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I suppose it depends on exactly what you are doing with the car. Some perspective, I have installed the following:

1: Torque Boxes
2. Global West SFCs
3. Custom cowl bracing that spiderwebs the front end(makes the front end super rigid, but doubt it does anything for the rest of the car)
4. Mike Maier Strut tower brace/monte carlo bar

With just those 4 things installed, I place a jack under the rear torque box and jack up the car and the front wheel comes off the ground BEFORE the rear wheel. Now, to qualify that, there is no drivetrain installed when I do this...but I also have not yet installed a rear seat divider or tied my flooor pans into the SFCs(which I also plan to do).

My point is that exactly how much rigidity do you need? I can tell you for a fact I already have more than I need for the use of my car....which is going to be a spirited street car capable of the occasional track day. I doubt adding convertible pieces at this point would gain me anything but weight...its not a full race car after all, but its still far stiffer than my 2005 Mazda 6...which is a good handling daily driver for me

I have the front torque boxes installed and made and installed the Daze connectors. See my previous reply. My car will see the same as yours so I am leaning towards not installing the very parts. Plus the car may get a 4 or 6 point cage that has removable rear cross brace and swing out 6 point bars. But I am a long ways away from making that decision. I guess I have to look up the requirements based on times at the drag strip. I would like to take it to Sebring but just for fun, not racing it.
 

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I saw NPD sells a one piece seat pan for the coupe/fastback cars but requires a custom carpet to be made for fit. I am not aware of modifying the stock coupe seat pans. I will have to look into it. But will it be worth it if I install an X brace under the car tieing the frame connectors together? I made my own frame connectors(Daze) and I added two inserts on each corner so I can fab and mount my own X brace with a safety drive shaft loop.

If you are going to install the convertible inner rockers you will need to either modify the stock pans or use the convertible one piece pan. The one piece one that NPD has for the coupe will not work.

Also the convertible seat pan will raise the seat a little which is already too high. The seat pans for the Cougar will lower the seat from the coupe position but still needs modifications if you install vert inner rockers.

I removed the drivers side pan on mine and am going to cut it down an inch or so and then modify the outside to cope with the vert inner rocker.
The pass side I modified the seat pan in the car to install the vert inner rocker. I do not plan on lowering that seat yet if at all...

This is a link to a couple pics of my pass side during the vert rocker installation. https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/build-forum/1149848-66-basket-case-5.html

Most of the spot welds that attach the seat pan to the inner rocker were removed with that modified chisel and brass hammer in the picture. A few had a little grinding prep done first but the spot welds are so extremely poorly done on this car that I find most any joint is better attacked with my sharp chisel and hammer. It cuts right through the spot weld.
Many spot welds in the front of the car and other places have very little contact as in many only have 1/8" diameter where the metal was actually fused. I am amazed the car didn't just fall apart coming off the assembly line....
 

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Ford, in their infinite wisdom, deleted the one piece seat riser after '68 on convertibles. The under structure (for torsional rigidity purposes) would be the key reinforcement to link the inner rockers together. I chopped up a once piece seat riser and installed modified regular seat risers into my '70 sports roof, which took a bunch of time and doesn't look to be worth the effort.

One thing that I would look at is using the 69-70 inner rockers vs the 65-68 versions due to the shape, which will allow more room for different seat widths. There are a couple of good reasons the one piece seat risers were so tall.
 

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I've tried searching but can not find my answer. When I first bought sheet metal and started my project I was not aware of using the vert parts to increase the stiffness of the car. Which leads me to my question. I have already installed front torque boxes, but not the vert boxes. Can I or is it even worth trying to use the vert inner rocker and butt it against the torque boxes? I do not want to remove the boxes at this point. I would have to exchange my seat pans and get the vert seat pan but those parts are still in boxes. The car will get at least a 4 point roll bar, maybe 6. It will have frame ties as well. The plan for the car is a 408 with 500-600 HP and 500 ft lbs of torque with a manual gearbox.
Quite the conundrum. For the power you plan on making you should be looking for any stiffening advantage available but dang that is some major surgery! I have yet to install my torque boxes, but when I do I'll probably have a local to my work metal shop fab up some 2 piece convertible rockers that will give me the strength without the butchery. I'm not going to cut my floor from my lower pinch weld to install the vert inner rockers. That seems counter productive on a solid rust free car?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If you are going to install the convertible inner rockers you will need to either modify the stock pans or use the convertible one piece pan. The one piece one that NPD has for the coupe will not work.

Also the convertible seat pan will raise the seat a little which is already too high. The seat pans for the Cougar will lower the seat from the coupe position but still needs modifications if you install vert inner rockers.

I removed the drivers side pan on mine and am going to cut it down an inch or so and then modify the outside to cope with the vert inner rocker.
The pass side I modified the seat pan in the car to install the vert inner rocker. I do not plan on lowering that seat yet if at all...

This is a link to a couple pics of my pass side during the vert rocker installation. https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/build-forum/1149848-66-basket-case-5.html

Most of the spot welds that attach the seat pan to the inner rocker were removed with that modified chisel and brass hammer in the picture. A few had a little grinding prep done first but the spot welds are so extremely poorly done on this car that I find most any joint is better attacked with my sharp chisel and hammer. It cuts right through the spot weld.
Many spot welds in the front of the car and other places have very little contact as in many only have 1/8" diameter where the metal was actually fused. I am amazed the car didn't just fall apart coming off the assembly line....

You did some nice work on your project.

I understand I can not use my stock seat pans, hence the disappointment in not being able to return mine in partial exchange for the vert seat pan. So my plan was to install the vert seat pan for the added strength. I would not install the vert inner rockers without the vert seat pan but that's just me.

NPD sells a one piece seat pan for the fastback/coupe models that does not have the vert inner rockers!!! But you need to have a carpet made for your car because the factory carpets won't fit it. I understand this one piece pan will not work with the vert inner rockers. It was mentioned as an option if I did not use the vert parts.

I was not aware the vert seat pan raises the seat. I'm only 5-8 so it may not really be an issue for me.

As for removing any welds and such, I have already removed the entire floor, replaced everything from the rear frame rails to the tail light panel with new metal. Well the tail light panel is all that's left for the stock metal in the back of the car. So installing the vert inner rockers isn't much work at this point other than I have already installed the non vert torque boxes. So I either butt weld them to the front/floor of the torque box or I try to cut the torque box and slide then through and then weld. I also understand the vert floor is different than the coupe floor pan. All that is different is my lip is bent up instead of down, easy fix. Just bend the lip so it faces down.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit.

As for strength with the power I will have, I was also planning on installing a 4 point roll bar and would like to make it a 6 point if I can get it where the front door bars will swing out of the ways. But it may not be too much to slip over the top of them if they are welded in. This thought process makes the vert approach a little harder for me. Do I do one or the other or both?

I really appreciate everyone's input. I truly read into the advice offered here. I'm maybe 4 months from having to make a final call on what I will do. I will making an inner X brace tieing the front inner frame to the rear torque boxes like the one TCP sells which will be mounted to the frame connectors.
 
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