Vintage Mustang Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went and looked at a perfect rust free 641/2 D code Mustang body today minus motor. It was a 1 owner car with a clear title and it had the owners manual in the glove box with the vin# info on it. It also had the correct warranty plate on the door to match the vin# on the title. Now for the weird part, the car had been wrecked in the front end back in 1970. They took a complete front end clip from a 66 and put it on the 641/2. So the vin number under the hood thats on the fender panel is for the 66. Don't know the history of that vin#. My question is if I bought the car should I send the orignal title for the 64 1/2 in and get it transfered into my name or get a bill of sale for the car with the 66 vin#. If anything ever happened which would be the legal vin# to go by. I thought I could change the panel under the hood that has the vin# on it and do away with that number but isn't there some more locations on the front clip that has the vin# on it. Thanks for any suggestions on this matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,669 Posts
In addition to stamping the VIN by the left fender cutout, it can also be found under the pax side fender under the attaching lip, approximately adjacent to the hood hinge. That is of course assuming that that particular engine bay panel was not replaced by the 66 clip.

It would seem prudent to me, to approach your local DMV and find out exactly what is acceptable by local law for titling purposes, given the curcumstances you describe, before one red cent is spent on the car.
 

·
Gone but never forgetten
Joined
·
25,239 Posts
I think I'd have to pass on that one. At least get it checked out VERY well by a frame shop and talk with the DMV to see what it will take to register the car ... it's very likely that they'll assign it a new "state issued" VIN number. The official VIN is the one stamped on the inner fender (the '66 one in your case). This just sounds like one very big can of worms, to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's what I was thinking that the 66 vin would be the offical vin# for the car. Who ever did the work on the car did a very good job. It's a shame about the vin problem because none of the underside and body panels had any signs of rust anywhere and were dent free. If I knew the history of the 66 vin# it might make a difference because in Georgia all you need is a bill of sale. He only wants $1000.00 for it and will probably take less because of the vin problem. If I went to the DMV would they have any info on the 66 vin#? Thanks :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
if you have the paper work for the 64 1/2 a title and bill of sale use that vin as the vin for the car. that way you will have a 64 1/2 with a 64 1/2 vin. as for the 66 vin cut it out of the fender apron and just weld in a piece of sheet metal. thats what i did with my 68 coupe i got a clip from another car but cut the vin off the fendor apron and put in plane sheet metal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,838 Posts
The VIN for the 641/2 would be THE vin for the car. Just because you replace a fender apron does NOT mean that the car gets a new identity. You should also know that you can buy a new apron with the correct 64 1/2 VIN altready stamped onto it and have it installed if you would like. It's easy and cheap. There are thousands of cars that have had NOS or repro aprons installed that do not have any VIN on them. Does that mean that the car has no vin number??? Of course not. The VIN on the door and title would be valid for the car no matter what apron was installed. I recently sold a 68 that actually had a 1966 apron installed in it!!! They welded an extra piece on the side to make it fit! What a crappy repair! But the new owner cut it out and replaced it by using an NOS apron and cut and welded the VIN (correct#) from the other side since that apron was being cut out and replaced anyway. Don't sweat it, it is not a big deal. If you've got a good rust free body for $1,000 or less, go for it!!

PS: NEVER INVOLVE THE DMV IN ANY CAR PROBLEM AS THEY WILL ONLYMAKE IT WORSE!!! There is a story floating around about a 1970 boss Mustang in the northwest that was impounded by the police for one reason or another. The VIN's on the fender aprons on these cars are just partial vin's with missing #'s and letters. The police incorrectly assumed that the VIN was sopme kind of fake or forgery and CUTTHE VIN NUMBERS OUT OF THE APRONS ON THE BOSS!!!!! Don't leave ANY decision up to the idiots at the DMV. Don't EVER invovle the government in a car issue or they will screw it up royal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,838 Posts
The VIN for the 641/2 would be THE vin for the car. Just because you replace a fender apron does NOT mean that the car gets a new identity. You should also know that you can buy a new apron with the correct 64 1/2 VIN altready stamped onto it and have it installed if you would like. It's easy and cheap. There are thousands of cars that have had NOS or repro aprons installed that do not have any VIN on them. Does that mean that the car has no vin number??? Of course not. The VIN on the door and title would be valid for the car no matter what apron was installed. I recently sold a 68 that actually had a 1966 apron installed in it!!! They welded an extra piece on the side to make it fit! What a crappy repair! But the new owner cut it out and replaced it by using an NOS apron and cut and welded the VIN (correct#) from the other side since that apron was being cut out and replaced anyway. Don't sweat it, it is not a big deal. If you've got a good rust free body for $1,000 or less, go for it!!

PS: NEVER INVOLVE THE DMV IN ANY CAR PROBLEM AS THEY WILL ONLYMAKE IT WORSE!!! There is a story floating around about a 1970 boss Mustang in the northwest that was impounded by the police for one reason or another. The VIN's on the fender aprons on these cars are just partial vin's with missing #'s and letters. The police incorrectly assumed that the VIN was sopme kind of fake or forgery and CUTTHE VIN NUMBERS OUT OF THE APRONS ON THE BOSS!!!!! Don't leave ANY decision up to the idiots at the DMV. Don't EVER invovle the government in a car issue or they will screw it up royal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,022 Posts
I'm kind of sympathetic to olddustyrelics' viewpoint on this one.

I would loosen both front fenders and look behind the shocktowers for the "hidden VINs". In 1965 in San Jose they were often stamped on both rear aprons as well as the one front visible one. It may well be the case that only some of the panels were replaced. (I don't know where the car was built in this case so I don't know how many VINs to expect when you loosen the fenders.)

If you can find a correct early 65 VIN in the back half of the engine compartment I would be very tempted to just remove the incorrect one(s). Depending on your state Kevin Marti may be able to sell you a freshly stamped apron with the correct VIN, or supply the stamping kit to fabricate one (my state theoretically does not allow this - I checked a while back).

My other question though is how do you know the shell is actually an early 65? It could also be that the early 65 parts were added to a 66 shell, and the 66 VIN is the one that really goes with the car's body?

Just a note: While we often use the term 64 1/2, the VINs of these cars were official 1965 VINs. Therefore the "correct" 64 1/2 VIN will start with a "5".

Anyway if the panels are as good as you say I would think it is worth way more than $1,000.

John Harvey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
My 64&1/2 Coupe had a 65 front end, thus 2 different VINs. My title and registration both used the 64&1/2 without any problems. I bought it without problem and sold it without problem. You can't change the VIN of a car by changing a part, the Original VIN is the only VIN.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,252 Posts
Technically, it's the VIN on the fender apron that represents the car, not the warrantee tag on the door (which says not to be used as a VIN). Those tags (and doors) can be replaced relatively easily, but a stamping on a fender apron is harder to do.

Unfortunately, when two car halves get welded together, the issue becomes: which one should it be titled under? Technically (and anal-ly ::) it should be the front half with the appropriate VINs on the fender aprons, despite the fact that the front half is actually less than half of the car. Ideally, one would take the two titles down to the local DMV and let them destroy one or the other (or both! and re-issue a new VIN) and keep the other VIN.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,022 Posts
Your car started life with a 1965 VIN, what do you mean when you say a 65 front end? Do you mean just different 1965 front end pieces were added to your car?

But an important note, for the 65/66 Mustangs the official legal VIN is the one(s) in the engine compartment (so if all of those are replaced, the car no longer HAS a legally recognizable VIN). So I'm not sure what you mean by saying the VIN can't change when you change a part.

John Harvey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It lookes like some of you say the 641/2 vin is correct and some say the 66 is correct. The guy has a clear title for the 641/2 vin but nothing for the 66 vin. The car from the firewall back is a 641/2 car. It has the generator intrument panel, clip on door and window handles and the master cylinder with the brake light switch. I do agree that I don't need to get the DMV involved with the vin problem. The good news is I called the guy back today with my concerns with the vin and he took my offer of $500.00 for the car. I'm going in the morning to pay him and pick the car up Saturday. If something happens and I can't register the car I can always use the parts on the car for that price. Thanks for all of your advise on this.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top