Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Rebuilding pumpkin on an 8 inch with different gears. On the front pinion, I installed the bearing on the pinion, installed it through the nose piece (new races), crush sleeve in the middle, and new bearing seal under the yoke.
I thought I had it drove down but there is some slop. The impact stops with no gaining.. do I need to press some more line maybe the bearing isn't fully seated??
Also looking online most 8 " pumpkins show a pinion bearing retainer and a washer between the outer bearing and yoke.. my pinion bearing had no retainer and the rebuild kit didnt come with one either. Same with the washer. I didnt have one
The rebuild kit came with 2 crush sleeves though. Was I supposed to use them both? Need to hit it with the press again?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
809 Posts
Seems like you did everything right.
To what torque did you tighten the big pinion nut?
There really isn’t a specific torque value there. You tighten the nut enough to crush the sleeve and put some preload on the pinion bearings.
It takes a lot of force.

The tightening of the pinion nut should be done on the bench. With the pinion assembly held in a vice or something. Because the drag of the carrier bearings will effect how the pinion bearing preload “feels.”
You can use a inch/lbs torque wrench to measure the preload but I’ve always done it by feel.

You tighten, then spin the pinion in small increments. A tiny bit too tight is ok. But way too tight and you will be needing a new crush sleeve.

Also, don’t forget about pinion depth and backlash. The carrier bearings need a small amount of preload too.
It’s all a delicate balance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I have the pinion out on the bench. The actual value is 250 ft. Lbs, but I know a lot do it by feel. With a ratchet or impact it bottoms out no more movement..I think maybe it needs pressed more. If not we are looking at a washer.

I'm not sure why it came with 2 crush sleeves. That was throwing me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
It takes a lot of force to crush the sleeve. On the Dodge vans at work with 9 1/4" rearends we would get less than 25,000 to 50,000 miles out of the pinion bearings and we had about 200 of those vans in the phone company yard. I probably changed pinion bearings on a dozen of those vans a year. Those rearends do not have a removable carrier so the setup process has to be done on the hoist. We had a 3' aluminum pipe wrench we put on the yoke and then let the other end of the wrench rest against the leaf spring to hold the yoke from turning. Then we had a 3' long 3/4" 4 drive, 400 lb. ratchet and socket to crush the sleeve. Even with that large ratchet it was a hard pull to crush the sleeve. When all the play is eliminated you only want to start making the tinniest adjustments to the pinion nut as possible, Like no more then 1/8" of movement at a time. There is a really fine line between the correct preload and too much. You might be with in a couple inch pounds of your specifications. Move the nut an 1/8" and be over your specification. There is no backing off the nut if you go too far. You will need to install a new crush sleeve and start all over. When you start to feel a "little" resistance and you get a preload reading on your inch-pound torque wrench, take a large punch and hammer and smack the front and back of the pinion. The preload will almost always loosen. Then tighten the preload a little more. The smallest possible movement you can make on the nut and I mean the absolute "smallest". Smack it again and if it loosens up tighten the nut another small amount.. When smacking the pinion front and back no longer loosens the preload and you have the correct inch-pound reading your good. An old timer showed me that trick and it does work. Otherwise you would think you had the correct preload and it would loosen up. I have probably done 100 of them of them that way.

I use a quality inch-pound "dial" torque wrench. That means you will need adaptors to go from the I/4" torque wrench to the large socket on the pinion nut. Preload is the force it takes to continually rotate the pinion not the torque it takes to get it to start rotating. You are suppose to set the preload without the seal in because the drag of the seal changes the preload readings. The problem is if you bakeoff the nut, remove the yoke, install the pinion seal your not going to get the nut back in the same place again. Just oil up the yoke where it rides on the seal and don't worry about it. Also, put some blue Loctite on you pinion nut and you should use always use a new nut.

748157
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I dont think that's the issue.. took it back to the press... for sure bottomed out, and still.some slop wiggle up and down. I am thinking I need to add a shim or machine bushing between the yoke and bearing. Anyone else have to do this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Looking at a shop manual diagram, it shows an "oil slinger" installed between the bearing and the yoke. Looks like a washer to me. Mine did not have one when it came apart and the kit doesn't have one so I didnt look for one to go back with. Anyone else familiar with this?
748176
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
That could be a 9-inch rearend illustration?

This 8-inch one does not show a oil slinger. I don't think an oil slinger would be thick enough to prevent the crush sleeve from crushing far enough.

Its possible you have the wrong crush sleeve that is not tall enough or one that has already been crushed? I was trying to find the width of an uncrushed one and so far I'm not having any luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
I avoid crush sleeves and go with solid shim. It makes the setup easier. Set it up once and forget about it. It’s about $25. If you have slop in the pinion then you obviously haven’t crushed the sleeve enough or you have other issues. Like I said, go solid because you can achieve a more precise CD (checking distance), or pinion depth which is critical to the entire process. It also makes makes it easier to make slight adjustments when setting up ring&pinion because you simply +/- a shim, where as a crush sleeve is a one time get it right. Also make sure you have an inch pound dial type torque wrench meter to set pinion preload, a click type will not give you the proper reading.

Sorry, couldn't find the part # earlier, its Ratech 4114, solid shim kit, $15.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
We had Dana 60 rearends that the pinion depth shims went between the pinion and the bearing to adjust the pinion depth and between the pinion bearing to adjust the preload I had to press the bearing on and off until I got the patterned centered. The side bearing adjustment required spreading the case and pressing on and off bearings and changing shims. Its a pain in the butt. I finally honed a set of bearings that were a slip fit. Then I could make all the change I needed easily to the shims. When I had everything where it needed to be I slipped off the honed bearing and pressed on the new ones. Bearings are made so accurately that you can get away with this. Building rearends is fun.

(Below) Solid shim kits to replace crush sleeves. I never had any problems with crush sleeves not holding the preload but The 1/2 ton Dodges had 9 1/4" rearends that used crush sleeves and the larger Dodge 1-ton trucks with the stronger Dana floater rearends used solid pinion shims. That might be a hint that the solid shims are better.

Ford Solid Pinion Bearing Spacer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,814 Posts
The bearing load spreader is built into the pinion nut. Do you have a real pinion nut like what is in the photo?

What exactly are you saying is sloppy there?

There is usually a thin steel shim between the pinion support and the case but that is for pinion depth to the ring gear.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Yes. Brand new pinion nut came with the kit. When I say slip it seems the pinion nut bottomed out. Feels.like there is not contact with the crush sleeve. The pinion will move forward and back on the bearing about an 1/8 inch loose in the housing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,814 Posts
To have that much movement I would almost think that one of the bearing races is actually missing, wrong size or has been wankered up in there somehow . It is also possible that the threads on the pinion are fouled up down toward the bottom and are keeping the pinion nut from being able to be torqued completely down. You could have over crushed the crush sleeve too. You should be able to just pull it back out of the third member if you have it installed, move the pinion forward and backward and see where the loose factor is coming from. To check the pinion shaft threads you will need to back the nut off of course. It should be something fairly obvious to see once you can get it out where you can see it.

I pulled that photo out of a rebuild 8 inch article so i can't take credit for that third member set up gadget. It does look pretty good though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,824 Posts
I ran into an issues rebuilding my 9.75 in my truck. Discovered that the one pinion bearing I bought local to use for setting the pinion depth was different than the bearing that came in the rebuild kit by about .040. Of course I did not discover this until after I had put it all together.

I also suggest a solid shim kit. It really makes life a lot easier. Use your old pinion nut to check the preload. Once you get the correct preload then use the new pinion nut with loctite and your done. I used a solid shim kit in my 9.75 truck axle and will be using one in the 9 inch I rebuild for the mustang too.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top