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Discussion Starter #1
Here's the deal, just under two months ago I bought a 68 Mustang Fastback Shelby clone from a high volume Mustang dealer. The car is an S code 390 4 speed GT car, candy apple red exterior with red interior. The car was located too far away from my home so I couldn't visit the dealer to inspect the car in person, I had to rely on pictures he provided via email and I shared the pictures with a few other fellow VMF’s who all gave it the thumbs up. In the pictures the car looked great, it needed some work but basically could be a very nice car with a little TLC and finishing. The dealer is a certified concourse judge so I trusted his word and opinion. Everything I heard from him and saw in the pictures looked good so I decided to buy the car (for a large amount of money). I had to pay to have it shipped to my house which cost me almost $1000. Once the car arrived I noticed a few small things that he had not mentioned but I decided to not make a stink and just deal with it (i.e. the fold down seat parts don’t fit and are for a different year car, no keys supplied with the car so I had to change all the cylinders, and the entire floor had been replaced and he told me it was a factory floor never replaced).

But now that a little more time has gone by and I have had time to move the car into my garage and get a good look at in under good lighting I have noticed the paint (which was supposed to be great) on the hood is cracking and some other parts of the body have imperfections. When outside in the sun light the car looks good and it's not until it's under the lights that the paint problems are noticeable. Before I bought the car I had asked the dealer the condition of the paint and he said “it looks great, not problems”. Last week I called the dealer and asked him if there was anything he could do for me, he refused to help in anyway was very rude and basically hung up the phone on me.

My question to everyone is what should I do? Do I just deal with it and chalk it up to a learning experience (next time hire a classic car inspector) or should I take it further and press the issue with the dealer and try to get some money in the form of a refund to get the paint repaired? I know I should have contacted him sooner but it wasn’t noticeable in sunlight and garage access wasn't available until recently. I’m now worried that the paint cracking will spread across the entire car and before long I’ll need to shell out big dollars for an entire repaint.
 

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This car wouldn't have come form Mr Barry would it?
 

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

no keys supplied with the car so I had to change all the cylinders

<hr></blockquote>

I dont know about you, but if i bought a car i would have thought an important thing to mention would be "by the way, it has no keys!"

Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The car is an unfinished project, PO had redone the body and interior but never finished the engine and all the body details (like the door locks and all the trim chrome), but the seller never told me that they were missing until it arrived to my house.
 

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I guess I can kinda feel for you, I too went through a simular deal on the purchase of mine.... only mine was (from the sounds of things) was a whole lot worse. I guess I'm "Too" trusting of people..( probably that "sucker" tatoo on my forehead) "G" anyway.... I suppose thats the chance we take buying a uninspected car. Now I would think that if this guy is a dealer with a repretation to protect... He would at least listen and try and make things right. Pretty hard to "miss" a floor replacement? As far as the paint goes ...thats kind've a tricky deal... The worst paint ever looks is under shop lights! I've sat at stewed and found all kinds of stuff about my paint that I think just looks awful! Yet I pull it outside and it looks like a million bucks! Somewhere you have to draw the line. Or you'd "never" drive it. The cracking thing could be anything? No reason to think it will continue over the entire car.... In all likelyhood theres been some bodywork done there,and the bodywork is breaking down. I don't know how much you paid for the car,but you may indeed have new paint in your future.....but if its not noticiable (other than to you) then drive and enjoy your car..... the more you "stew" about it, the less your going to enjoy the car. (trust me)
 

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Like i said, i think thats an IMPORTANT detail - i would have raised hell over that. IMO, he REALLY should have told you that.

But i guess thats what you get when you buy 'sight-unseen'

Gary
 

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It does not sound like there is much you can do. Keys should have been expected, but that is not a big $ item.

Condition is one of those "in the eye of the beholder" things.

Since you say this is a Shelby clone, I presume the hood is fiberglass. That would explain the cracking on the hood. You should not have the same problems on the metal portion of the car.

The problem you have is that it would likely cost you more to press the issue than you could recover. You would have to prove that he misrepresented the condition and prove the amount by which you were damaged.

If it makes you feel better I bought a house without setting foot in it. I did see the yard and peek in the windows and my boss did take an 1 1/2 hour video of the inside so I could see that. What I did not know, nor did the inspector notice, that the floor was constructed with 1/2" plywood. Structurally it is fine, but I am chasing squeeks. The fact is, even if I had known that and a couple other nagging things, I cannot say that I would have backed out of the deal, but I may have negotiated a little harder.
 

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Im not sure that you are going to be able to get a dime out of him. You may contact the BBB, but I doubt they can do much for you either. Make sure all the frames are solid, etc... if they arent, then you may be able to get him for false advertising.
 

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Sorry to hear about your situation. My 2 cents: Unfortunately, you are probably screwed. Did you sign a contract for sale? Did it say "as-is"? Is there anything in writing that supports your position of the dealer's representations about the car? If you want 1/2 your money back and are prepared to give up the car, you can try contacting a lawyer. You may have a fraud claim, although it will be tough if it boils down to "he said/she said." If you prevail, you'll likely only get half back; the lawyer and costs will take up the rest. You can file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau that may tip someone off in the future, although you are unlikely to get anything tangible out of it. Wish there were better options for you.

Good luck,
 

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It can't hurt to try to get some $$$ back, but I would not hold my breath on that happening.

You got bit by the seller, just like I got bit when I bought mine from a dealer. The only difference is that I knew it was happening when it happened.
 
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You bet you got burned and so do a lot of us when we buy our cars or parts without seeing them first. I too just paid a lot on for a pair of hi-po manifolds that were not what they were advertised to be.

You said you paid a lot for the car. Frankly, I believe the PO should make you happy and unless he's willing to do so I would...

1st. send him a certified letter requesting resolution of your complaint in 30 days.

2nd. certified letter to the governing body that recognized him as a `certified concourse judge' to express your concern he may be using his credentials to mislead people as to the true condition of his vehicles.

3rd. send a certified letter to the Better Bussiness Bureau to lodge your complaint for misrepresenting the car.

4th...call him daily!!! don't give up because your a nice guy... his wife will finally get pissed and she'll get this resolved.

Good luck....and never give up...whatever he calls himself, he's still a crook.
 

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I don't know how hard you want to work on this, but I'd recommend that you make a list of EVERYTHING that wasn't as advertised. If you have emails or notes from your phone calls, I'd put that all together. Make a summary and write a really nice letter that summarizes why you are unhappy. The tone should be that you'd really like to give the guy a chance to make it right and that you don't expect him to take the car back, just work something out with you.

He may decide to come to some kind of arrangement or he may blow it off. If he chooses the latter course, I'd check into small claims court, the better business bureau and there may be other ways to generally get the word out that he's a crook (which, based on your post, it sounds like he is).

Good Luck!
 

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I would check with the DMV in the state the car came from, some states have laws that do help the buyer when this happens. I would also post his name with what happened to you every where you can( he will not like that and might start talking to you.) If he is a certified concourse judge, people need to know. Let all clubs and shows know what he's like. You might get a call from him real fast,wanting to make you happy. No keys with the car how did he think you were going to move it off the trailer onto your driveway
 

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Hey, somebody stole my 68gt390 outta my garage last month.
Luckily I keep all the keys to my mustangs under my pillow.

Anybody seen it?

/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #16
When I ask the dealer from where I bought the car:

What about the keys? His reply “nope, I didn’t get them so you don’t get them”.

The fold down seat parts don’t fit,, why not? His reply “I said I have some fold down seat parts to go with the car, I never said they would fit a 68”.

What about the paint? His reply “I never noticed anything wrong with it”

Will you refund a portion of the costs of the repair? His reply “he laughed and hung up the phone”.
 

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I wouldnt let him get away with it. Even if you cant get any money back (or something else to compensate), it will be a satisfaction to bug him.
I mean if he is a dealer and concours judge, I guess he has a reputation to lose.

I dont talk about "flaming", but if he burned you and dosent even care to talk to you about it, he definately deserves some bad "publicity". I would complain about him if he keeps ignoring you.
Maybe asking for a refund at the start was a bit too harsh, and drove him off. But thats still not really the way to behave. (hanging up on you)

The fact that he dosent really care to talk to you, shows that he either knows what he did, or that he dosent care. Maybe even both.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
That sounds like a good idea, I'm going to do that tonight. I'll write up all the details and ssend it certified mail explaining all the problems and what I need in return and with a 30 day deadline. Maybe then he'll take me more serious.
 

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You should contact the DMV first to see if he's listed and still licensed as a dealer. Then file a complaint. Collect all email correspondence and/or write down any conversations you've had in as much detail as possible to include phone bills that show the number.

Then contact an attorney and see if you have enough evidence to build a fraud case. If he used the internet to sell it, and if he's in another state, it's a felony if I remember correctly. An attorney can tell you best how to start stacking the cards.

Either way, I would hold off on flaming him until after you speak with an attorney. You don't need a counter-lawsuit for defamation or slander. I know for California, you have up to one year to file a claim in small claims court (as long as the amount in dispute is under $5000).

Talk to an attorney and then decide on your course of action. I was p*ssed for days until I actually sat down with a lawyer and we hashed it all out. It would have been a 50/50 shot for me so with travel expenses, time off work, and sheriff (to deliver the supoena) and court fees, it was a gamble that didn't really add up for me. So... I ended up eating it as a loss and I've slowly gotten over it and chalked it up as "an expensive lesson". You might have a better shot but you won't know until you talk to a lawyer.

And.. if you decide not to take him to court... THEN flame the hell out of the guy.
 

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Ya know, I can't think of a lot of situations where this guy has possession of a car with no keys that don't involve the car being hot wired. Is it possible that he sold you a stolen car? Is the ownership documentation authentic? This guy could go to jail for a long time for fencing stolen cars. Maybe if you suggest that you are going to do a serious search of car's recent history to "understand" why it had no keys he might get hinky enough to take the damn thing back. If he does I would go to the authorities anyway and tell them what you know about the car and this dealer. He deserves to be put out of business. Of course, if you do look into the title and history of the car and find that it is stolen and he still won't take it back you have yourself a moral dilemma.
 
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