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Discussion Starter #1
So I've got a pretty good idea about what the answer is, this is purely for discussion since many of us may be bored right now.

My engine made 324rwhp through a C4. Now this is corrected and I actually don't have the un-corrected numbers. Might have to call the dyno shop. I'm at a mile high which is about 18% less oxygen than sea level depending on the specific DA that day. So lets assume actual power is within 18%: 265rwhp minimum.

Here's the details on the engine:

302 Roller Block (.030 over = 306ci)
10.75:1 Compression
TFS 170cc Heads with Anderson Valve Springs
Anderson B-41 Cam (0.544/0.568, 228/236 112 LSA)
1-3/4" Headers
Edelbrock RPM AirGap
Holley Street Avenger 670, 1" Open Spacer
Pertronix Distributor and Coil

So what's the question? What will happen if I throw a blower on it and maybe run E85?

I already have a blower cam, so it's a little wider LSA. And the altitude is going to reduce both static compression and dynamic across the board, so maybe even 91 octane would be possible. E85 would definitely be safer. Aside from compression, once concern is the hypoeutectic KBB pistons. Obviously forged would be better but running hypoeutectic pistons with forced induction isn't some crazy idea and I think on E85 it will be fine.

This is the supercharger I am considering:

Engine Masters got over 600hp out of that head unit on a 363. I don't expect that much obviously.

I'll have to make some other changes as well.

Carb:
Probably looking at C&S blow-thru set up for E85. QuickFuel has an off the shelf blow-thru E85 carb but C&S will set the carb up exactly to my specifications, and they're definitely the best if you ask me. I'll need a fuel pressure regulator as well since I will go with a high volume electric fuel pump.

Fuel tank, pump and fuel lines:
I'll probably get the Spectra EFI tank everyone already knows about but I'll be putting in an AEM E85 pump:
I'll also get a 3/8" OEM style hard line and use my original fuel line as the return.

Ignition:
I'll probably convert to a small cap Duraspark with some sort of box that can retard timing.

Battery:
This one hurts. I just spent a bunch of time moving my battery toward the outside of the car so I could better fit a 24" radiator. I have one of the AGM batteries that looks like an Auto-Lite. It cost me $265 at the time and they're over $300 now if you can even find them in stock. You don't pay that much for battery only to put it in the trunk. But oh well. I know they have driver side superchargers but for whatever reason this kit is really inexpensive, and if you try to piece something together with your own head unit and brackets out of the Paxton catalog, it ends up costing way more all said and done.

What I expect to happen:
I think it will be fine. The altitude is no joke so I don't expect a ton of horsepower out of it, probably not even block splitting territory. If it had 400rwhp I would be happy, especially if it could do that uncorrected. The closer to 400rwhp uncorrected the better. My 8" might explode but I'm also not doing drag launches either.

Right now I have a C4 with a PTC race converter. It flashes a little over 4k. I haven't done a brake stand yet. I also have a full Toploader swap but I'd probably need a different clutch with the blower. I can run any 5.0 clutch since my flywheel has both new and old patterns. Still really undecided on whether to do the manual swap. My TCI StreetFighter C4 isn't technically rated for forced induction or nitrous, though my guess is it could handle a small blower at this altitude.

Feel free to tell me I'm crazy. I figure the likelihood of this happening is low.

I just have so much other stuff to do the car. All these parts are paid for and sitting in my garage:

24" radiator with Contour fans
3G alternator
3rd member, ribbed case with Trac-Lock to replace the original Equa-Lock
Full front and rear suspension (mix of Pacific Thunder, SoT and Bilstein in the front, Global West leafs, Del-Alum kit and Bilsteins for the rear)
KH front disc brake conversion
Quick steer kit
Toploader swap if I decide to do that

Discuss!!!
 

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I've spent a small bit of time on the turbo forums, so here is a question. How many miles are on that block/engine since it's last rebuild?

Usually the guys adding boost to a stock engine have some miles on the engine so the clearances/tolerances arent as super tight /dead on compared to a fresh build.
 

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I like the way you are thinking on this. My mind keeps wandering down the same path about adding a supercharger/E85 to my engine and it hasn't even made it into the car yet. This altitude is a power killer and boost is the great equalizer. I think your 306 with hyper pistons would be fine with a little boost but I'm not sure I would chance 91 octane, well maybe with methanol injection as a helper. I'm thinking either of your transmission choices would work as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Your sig says that you'll be doing pretty well as is. But this is the way it goes. The entire time I was building my 306 I was thinking it should be a 347. Maybe if it was I wouldn't be thinking about superchargers now. Or maybe I still would! It's just never enough.
 

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Lol, that number in my sig line is for the altitude corrected horsepower. The actual engine output without accounting for weather/altitude etc. is somewhat painful (considering money and parts involved) and in no way good sig line material :) I am out of toy money for a while so I'll have enjoy what I have for the time being--but forced induction is always on my mind. Anyways, like you said it's just never enough.
 

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E85 would give you a lot more tuning latitude and act as a chemical intercooler. For the money you'll spend on the carb you could have one of the self tuning EFIs and have it manage the timing so no need for a separate ignition retard. I'd be more concerned about the piston end gaps than the piston material.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So many people seem to have issues with the EFI units. I'd probably go with the Holley but even those aren't fool proof.

But actually, I did have that exact thought last night. I'm guessing the C&S carb is at least $1000 and that's a good point about the timing control.
 

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I actually had a blower that I was going to install, but in the end, I just could not bring myself to add 70+ pounds to the front end so I traded it away. When I lived in Boulder, I used to love to do the peak to peak highway which would be 4-5k altitude change in one run. I didn't know about EFI back then but I would sure consider it unless you stay at one altitude all the time. You can tune to your heart's content but once you change altitudes your no longer optimized. EFI FIxes that. WIthout EFI, I would consider a air/fuel ratio meter a must.

It might be worth considering a 347 kit, sure its gonna be a lot of work but finding a good place for an intercooler, changing the belt system and making all the changes you have posted is also a non-trivial project.

Just a thought...
 

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I like your setup. Your 306 will happily take boost. The hyper eutectic pistons should be fine, although they are not as forgiving to detonation as forged slugs. Just means you need to be a bit more conservative with AFR and timing. That is a good cam to run. 112-114 LSA works quite well. Duration to me looks alright too.

My Blue car has the spectra tank with the walbro 255 pump. I'd buy one again. Good idea on the AEM pump that'll support e85 if you go that route. 3/8 pressure and return lines are a must. There are a few drop in options for pumps depending on fuel requirements.

I'd seriously consider the super sniper and hyper spark. They work VERY well together and will make tuning with boost considerably more straightforward and simple. Its also quite cost effective. Otherwise you're buying a spark box and boost retard box and a dizzy and and and. Move everything into one unit, including fan control and all the other things. Plus the ability to Data log! watch AFR and temps real time with the handheld.

The only issues I've had with my Sniper were self induced. There is a lot of functionality built in. I'm still stoked every time it fires on the first spin of the key. I still like the fuel mileage it returns. the lack of bogs, stumbles etc when I go up and down the local hills. The expandability. I was one of the first converts to it in 2017. I'm still happy to have it. I will always recommend it.

I'm more a fan of water meth than E85. Not only do you get lower charge temps and a bit more detonation/pre ignition prevention, they're also set up to come on with boost. Thereby negating the need to run two tunes or always have +expensive+ and harder to find (it is here anyways) E85 in the tank. which you will burn through considerably quicker. I've run different kits on about 4 different cars now and ALWAYS liked the benefits.

I'm now looking at boost for the 5.0L in my rusty project. I had originally planned to use all the EEC-IV EFI stuff that came with that motor, but as I add up the costs to make that work with a supercharger, it simply becomes easier and more economical to just slap a dual plane intake and Super sniper on.

You don't need a ton to have a lot of fun with a windsor. 5-7psi is a hoot. +10 is wild in an early stang!
 

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I thought a bit more about it and some of your other concerns.

Im now making 450hp at the crank here at sea level with a 10.5:1 331, CNC ported PW heads, a Howards custom grind cam thats close to 580 lift and 112 LSA, can't remember duration off the top of my head. ported air gap. Holley sniper, Tri Y's and a stock curved dizzy with a pertronix. Backed by a T5Z with the common internal strengthening upgrades, and an 8in that sports a trak lok, 3.55's in a '67 third member with dutchman axles. I don't drop the hammer at 5k rpm but I do the occasional burnout and run the car through the gears. So far I haven't blown anything apart.

The few times I've seen people explode third members in 8 inch housings were high rpm sticky tired launches in the weaker '65-66 cases. I've also seen a lot of axles twist or snap though! They seem to be the weaker link.

I like the Novi line. I like Vortechs too. The 1200 is a nice blower. I've talked to craig at paradise about a paxton too. There are multiple options. Both driver and pax side mounts. The best bet when putting together a system that works for your car is to call and chat with one of the retailers to find the best solution and usually you end up with a better deal.

As for the trans, thats really personal preference. I can't sway either way. The blue car has a T5Z and the rusty one is going to get a built C4 with a manual valve body...
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
For some reason I'm really proud of having a car that will work after an EMP blast. But yeah, I've looked into the total Holley setup before.

In the end this is the dilema/thought process:

1) A 363 might do what I want and provide the safety factor on the block since Mustang guys love talking about splitting 8.2 deck blocks
2) If you have spent the money on a Dart block, why would you NOT do power adders?
3) Do I need that much power? Do I even need more power than I have?
4) What if there was a middle ground that allowed you to use the engine in the car? (and here's where we're at with this thread)
5) Is there a more reliable NA way to get what you want and spend less money?
6) A 363 might do what I want and provide the safety factor on the block since Mustang guys love talking about splitting 8.2 deck blocks
7) If you have spent the money on a Dart block, why would you NOT do power adders?
8) Do I need that much power? Do I even need more power than I have?
9) What if there was a middle ground that allowed you to use the engine in the car?
10) Is there a more reliable NA way to get what you want and spend less money?
11) Repeat.................

You can step into that list at any point and that's my life on a daily basis.

I should probably take the car to the dragstrip on a test night to get a feel for how it stacks up. Right now I know what it put down on a dyno. I also know that if I hit the gas in 2nd gear driving around town I very quickly hit a point where I realize the 4-wheel drums are not as adequate as I used to think. But I have no idea how any of that translates to real life. I'm always wanting a 12-second car even though that is slow now. As a kid my dad and uncles drummed into me that a 12 second car was the point where you are "fast." But my car doesn't even have to run 12s. It just has to be powerful enough that I know it would with the right suspension/tires.
 

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I know exactly those thoughts. I'm constantly changing my mind. Back and forth on what to do. What the costs are. what I want out of the car.

I'll say this much. For what I have into my 331, I could have just started with a dart block and gone to 363 cubes for not much more. Could have used a milder cam and had way more torque from the added displacement and never ever worried about splitting a block. Heck, I could of and should have gone to 347 in this block. But we're here now.. I know whats going through your mind. But still.. 450hp at the crank is a LOT of fun in the car. Now the big thing for mine is traction. Which is an issue for anyone over 300.. and wheel hop. Oh the slippery slope the snowball rolls down...

Same with the 8in. Should have just spent the bucks up front and put together a 9. I'm pretty much at the same spot dollar for dollar with a smaller and weaker option. I do have a housing and axles... Just need to get brakes and a third member for the 9.. but then I want to weld on the 3rd link stuff, which means 3k to Shaun.. so it all sits idley on the shop floor. My 235 mickey ET streets sit on the shelf, patiently awaiting my decision.

12s in a street car is properly quick though. I've owned and driven a handful of 13 and 14 second cars that were quick. A couple in the 12's and my 135 with water meth and loads of boost that clicked off an 11.98 on street tires, getting me promptly kicked off the track... That thing was FAST! But.. giant brakes and modern suspension and.... traction!

Get that disc brake setup on the front asap! Get at the projects you have. It'll help.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The other thing about running a carb is the intercooling effect. The Engine Masters episode where they test IATs was very eye opening.
 

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I would pick a blower over a stroker motor, especially a 363 cost wise that is (aftermarket block alone will match the blower cost) plus you will need rotating assy, bigger heads, cam & intake if you want NA engine to keep up with your blown 306. That blower will allow you to grow in future if necessary as well.
 

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I binge watched 30 episodes of Engine Masters this weekend after starting my free one month trial of Motortrend on demand. A super cool show that could put my credit in danger! I love when the put the Rotsun bone stock fox body 302 with a 7.3 Powerstroke turbo on it and made like 600hp! I did start looking at superchargers while watching. Move the battery write a check and go fast! I already have an EFI setup known to work well with boost so It's a good thing work is slow.

Definitely a bad show for the wallet!
 

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Isn’t running boost on a high compression engine asking for trouble? You are already approaching 11:1 compression ratio, and you want to force more in AND run pump gas?!?! Yikes. E85 would be a must I think.

I’ve played around with forced induction on my little Subaru, it has an 8.4:1 compression ratio and boost peaks at ~20psi. If timing isn’t watched and tuned precisely knock comes quick using only 91 octane. From what I’ve read, low compression and high boost tends to make more power safely than high compression and low boost does. Not exactly sure of the dynamics as to why, but you may want to query the internet’s to find out.

And now, back to my cocktail!
 

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I binge watched 30 episodes of Engine Masters this weekend after starting my free one month trial of Motortrend on demand. A super cool show that could put my credit in danger! I love when the put the Rotsun bone stock fox body 302 with a 7.3 Powerstroke turbo on it and made like 600hp! I did start looking at superchargers while watching. Move the battery write a check and go fast! I already have an EFI setup known to work well with boost so It's a good thing work is slow.

Definitely a bad show for the wallet!
The thing to remember about some of those type of builds: they're not expected to live past the dyno run (if that) ! Just like their 1500+ HP LS whatever build they expected to blow up.
 

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The thing to remember about some of those type of builds: they're not expected to live past the dyno run (if that) ! Just like their 1500+ HP LS whatever build they expected to blow up.
Agreed, at the end of most episodes they dial it back to practical applications for the average gearhead.
 
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