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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am just wondering what some of you would prefer a 351W or a 351C.

I would prefer the 351W. I think the 351W is a better motor because it will run more rpm's and I think it's cheaper to get the HP out of a 351W than a 351C.

So what are some of your thoughts?
 

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The c is built from the factory to run high RPMs not the w.

If you already own one or the other, it is cheaper to build the one you own, if you have to buy....I think you can build the c for less money than the w since if you pick up a nice used 351c with 4v closed heads, you don't need spend 2k or more on aftermarket aluminum high flow heads to keep up with your other motor mods.

IMHO it breaks down like this:
Stock c beat stock w
Built w beats stock c
Built c beats built w with same dollar investments.

The one advantage the w has over the c is the wide array of available parts. There are plenty of performance c parts around, but there is 10x more for the w.
 

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In my opinion the Cleveland is a far better motor. It is not hard
to get parts for like some people think. It can handle more RPMs
than a Windsor (not sure where you got your info.), and it can
produce more power than a Windsor for the same money.

It is a tighter fit in the early cars than a Windsor, but it does bolt
in. I can change my spark plugs in 30min. I will never run a
351 Windsor in my car. Edelbrock is coming out with a alum.
head for the C next year. There are three alum. heads on the
market for the C now (though they are a lot of money).

The Cleveland was made to be a performance motor.
The Windsor was made to be a truck motor.

Again, this is just my opinion, but why go with a Windsor
when you can have a Cleveland.
http://home.earthlink.net/~myradpc/_uimages/turn71.JPG

And then there is the WOW factor when you open the hood!
 

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xxx
 

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The Cleveland head design has better flow, but a outdated valve train. The Windsor has more aftermarket go fast parts available. The bottom ends are very similar. The Windsor will probably get you more fore your money.
 

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The Cleveland heads make for a lazy air flow at low RPM, killing low end torque. The Windsor has a taller deck height and a longer rod, therefore a better rod ratio, which makes more power. Granted that stock Windsor heads aren't great, but they can be woken up with minor work, and the aftermarket (even GT40 is cheap to get) aluminum heads are trick right out of the box. Lighter, better valvetrain, and better oiling makes the Windsor my choice. http://www.mustangsteve.com/W351_65.jpg
 

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LOL..notice all of us Cleveland owners come out of the woodwork!!!


It's not cheaper to get horsepower out of a windsor.......a 4V headed Cleveland can be built to push 450Hp normally aspirated, no nitrous, MUCH cheaper than a 450Hp windsor.


In fact, Clevelands would be FLAWLESS were it not for;

1. Their max ovebore of .030

2. The 4V ports being TOO big (makes tons of power, but isnt as civilized as it should be).

3. How few years Ford produced them (emissions came along!!)

4. Roughly 150 extra pounds on the front end of the car.


Clevelands were born out of the need for small block dominance in nascar......and in the beginning of the 80's, Ford started creating a racing program built around updated Cleveland heads.

For that matter, many podunk tracks around this country prohibit the use of Cleveland heads.....man, thats FUNNY!!!! awwwwww, poor baby is scared of our 30 year old cast iron heads!!!

Until one lays out at least 800 bucks for aftermarket heads, windsors breathe thru a straw!!! (exhaust ports)

The stock 4V intake port flows almost 300CFM and with the slightest grinding (Ford distributed the diagrams in the 80's) the exhust flows 200-220CFM). It'll take the intervention of a higher power to get a windsor head to match that.
 

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Well, my 2 cents are this, Winsor engines are more readily avaiable, and more choice of parts. They can make HP and enough to satisfy anyone. Cleveland engines were made for HP, as a matter of fact, Nascar Ford motors are still based on the Cleveland design. They have to breath. I think your choice should be based on what your looking for. Winsor motors are better known for low end git up and go quick, and Cleveland engines more for consistant HP at higher ends, yet still very, very respectable from the dead stop. Your application should be the determining factor, IMO.
 

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I can change my spark plugs in 30min
I can change the plugs in my 347 well under 5 minutes, easily ::

The 351C has some great stock cylinder heads.... but with modern technology I'll take a torquey 351W anyday IMO.

Regardless of which motor you run, its gonna make some good numbers anyways!
 

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351W was the main-stay Ford used in their big cars in the 70s because it was more economical than the 351C. I'm not sure of the actual ratio but I probably seen ten 351W for every 351C when I worked at a Ford dealer then. Because of the large numbers of the 351W is why you see more after-markets parts.
 

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For me I'll take the Windsor. More performance parts available for them and they have a better block design. That is why in Nascar they scrapped the Clevelands and went with the Windsor style block. They are more suited for high RPM. If run a Cleveland at high RPM you better plan on doing some work to the oiling system.
 

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Some good opinions given, I can add a little. Price and availibility. I have 3 dead, but buildable 351Ws in the garage. Two of which are pre-1975 blocks which I like a bit better. Two of them have the "better" D0OE cylinder heads. Oh, another one that has a busted block. Total investment-$50 plus the gas to fetch them home. OK, so this is not a deal you find everyday but I'd like to see anyone match what I drug up in W's with Cleveland's for anywhere close to the same money. I haven't even SEEN a buildable Cleveland laying around anywhere, at least not for sale. I chase down a lead once on a very sorry 72 Mustang once, but it turned out that someone had put in a 400M engine and it was locked up. I could of had the "Cleveland" and the car for a measly $900. I turned it down on the basis that the car was so rusty I doubted it could be pulled on ot a rollback in one piece.
 

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Ride in a 4v cleveland car sometime. I'm a cleveland fan and think that it will for the most part keep up with any windsor with aftermarket heads. It's good to be a little different anyway, everybody else anymore run the W's and 347 strokers. The windsor is a good engine and my lightning runs good. Even with the GT40 heads my 351C still puts out 50 to 60 more horse power according to the G tech pro comp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks to all who answered my post. I should have mentioned I was just thinking about building a 351W and was wondering what everone thought of the two motors.

When I do build one I will build a 351W. By the time I pay for a good C motor I can have a 351W with some trick flow heads and it will fit in my 65 better as well.

I am not sure if anyone recalls the guy that posted here a while back about why a 351W was better than a 350 chevy motor. He was a writter for a boat mag. and the 351W out did the 350 chevy for some good engineering reasons. He was even a chevy guy.

As for the cleveland not spinning rpm's I have read that hear on the VMF. It was said that they will spin but it cost money to get them to spin and I have heard a stock 351W can spin at 6K all day long in stock form. thanks again
 

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The Cleveland was axed due to emissions.


I've bought one cleveland core for $100, one for $250 (the one rebuilt and in my car now), and will have bought another for $200 (have the heads and crank, will get the block and rods soon).


My current cleveland has TRW forged pistons, stock rods/crank, ARP everything, crane's powermax 272, cloyes dbl roller tc, felpro gaskets, etc.

The only unduly expensive thing was the motorsport rockers and regular stud type rockers arent very expensive.

Ive bought several intakes used for about 100 apiece, headers were comparably priced to windsor stuff, the used 460 dizzy was $25.




So really, I only paid excessively for the rockers which were $260. Matter of fact, I just compared TRW (sealed power) forged pistons at Jeg's....the WINDSOR'S are more expensive!!



I stand by Clevelands......Dodgestang should race someone here with a aluminum headed 400ci windsor.....so everyone at VMF (actually, someone who decided to slam Clevelands) remembers how the "Ford food chain" is laid out.
 

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The "Ford Food Chain"??? And how does that work? Obviously there's quite a split in opinions on this. My vote goes to the Windsor. I've built both Windsors and Clevelands, and they've been raced on local oval short tracks. For the most part the Windsors were more successful. Seems like the Clevelands needed constant tinkering to keep 'em running "on top" where the Windsors weren't near as picky...
 

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The 351W came out in 69 models....the 351C in 70 models


Cant imagine Ford built the Cleveland for no reason....

Can't imagine Ford built the Boss 302 for no reason....
 

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very interesting thread here.

My convertible has a 74 351w, so I must side with the windsor group. Without typing a book both have many features that have found there way into todays racing engines. With the C motor, cores have not been easy to get for a while. We are not talking about the bore issue even, these are just cores. I bought my 74 out of a running driving car for 200 and sold the manifolds and accys for $250 right away. The choice was quite simple, though the 1400 heads have been a bitter pill so far.

This kicker is the the 351W factory roller blocks. Now that makes that 393 stroker a streetable Hp motor.

either way, you cannot go wrong!
 

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My convertible has the stock 351C-2V in it. One day I'll convert it to the 4V version. (I have the monster heads and intake) I'm anxious to "feel" the results. My first stang was a stock 1969 351W-4V 4-speed car. THAT THING SCREEMED! If all 69 windsor engines run that well you won't be dissapointed believe me. With that said, until I build my Cleveland, I can't make an educated decision. I don't beleive anyone can unless THEY themselves have owned both a W and C motors. ::

Scott
 

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I have run and raced clevelands since they came out in 1970.Who ever said that a cleveland would not rev compared to a windsor,must be living under a rock! I have run and know guys at my machine shop that have run high reving,(8500 + rpm) using stock cranks,rods and 2 bolt blocks in money making street cars.These guys are nitrous junkies also.I realize I am talking drag racing here,but a cleveland can handle it! My first clevland was a 4v "open chamber"motor with 11.1 compresion,a solid lift cam,the only mod to the block was an oil restricter kit.I used stock rods,rod bolts,crank.this motor pulled to 7500,all day long! They do rev! I like both motors but my heart goes to the cleveland,Because they sound and feel soooo...sweeeeet..at rpm! Just my .02!
 
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