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Will there be gas to keep our classics running? As a geology major in college I used to think we'd run out of petroleum long before my Tbird (and now my stang) ever expired from natural causes...now I'm starting to think that fuel cell vehicles (which use hydrogen) may bring an early demise to our cars. As a techy, I'm excited about the new technology and the prospect of shedding our dependence on middle-east oil, but as a classic car buff, I dread that day when my cars will become lawn ornaments.

How long do YOU think we'll have gas to put in our classics?
 

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I know that what you speak of could someday be a reality and could happen before we know it by a number of means. We do need the new technology for whenever it does happen. Just no way to say when that day will come.
 

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Start stockpiling now!! I buy by the 55 gal. drum, 118 oct., so I'm sure I'll stay friends with my buddies at the airport for many years to come!! You have to realize, fully doing away with petro is probably over 100 yrs. away because of things like, Transport dependence, air, ship, semis, military, etc. More than likely the emmisions people will have a bigger say in our hobbies demise. Hope to be someplace a little less governed by that time!! LOL
 
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Well, you can always find something to burn. If we run out of petroleum, we can basically keep our engines and run something like alcohol. I think there is a soybean fuel available as well. Not that we won't have to modify engines (alcohol doesn't like some of the seal materials and rejetting would be in order). We also would probably lose horsepower. It would also not be an inexpensive proposition.

Personally, I think that petroleum based fuels will always be around. Its just a matter of supply. As the worlds oil resources are depleted, petrol prices will go up, reducing demand. At some point, petrol will no longer be a fiscally viable fuel, but there will always some available for those that want (and can afford) it. Petrol may be banned from the street for pollution reasons, but it won't disappear.

Wouldn't it be neat to make a hydrid electric classic mustang? There's plenty of room in the engine bay. It could be made front wheel drive. It wouldn't be sporty, but it would make a nice commuter.
 
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Well... methanol is an option, but carbs have to be recalibrated, not just re-jetted... and there is no detonation or loss of HP, even get a gain in useable torque! Now as for me... I'm 44 & remember real gas. There's no way this country will let the big 2(DCP is a MB so it doesn't count)ever have a problem with selling it's stuff so that'll be forever. Our Gov won't let all the oil industry workers go without a meal, if they do no one can buy these new fangled cars! What about the farmers? If anyone ever raced cars in the '60's & '70's they'll understand this... the gasoline we have now can not possibly be anything but synthesized! It's quality is so poor & it seems to have no relationship at all to the real fuels of the past. Even the race fuels I run aren't as good. I think our offspring(if we have them) won't have to worry about it either as since we went to the moon this old world has become rather stagnant.
 

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We WILL run out of oil, that's a real fact!
Until then, oil will be harder and harder to find, and the price will reflect it's scarcity.

Hopefully, the supply will hold out till I get my Shelby finished... /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
 

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In 1973 when we had our first, ahem, "energy shortage" it was said that we'd run out of fossil fuels in 20 years. Well 29 years later, we still have fossil fuel!

Me personally, I think we all need to be more responable with energy usage in general. There is far too much waste in this country.

Not far from where I live, there is a young CEO of a pharmicutical company who is in his 30's with 1 kid. His house is almost as big as the building that I work in which is a World headquarters for a very large company with 600 employees! His property is bigger also. All this for 3 people! what waste. I'll post a picture soon, you won't blieve it!
 

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We won't ever "run out" of crude oil. But eventually it will get expensive. We have more known reserves of crude oil right now then we've ever had in the history of the world. Right now oil prices are artifically *high*. A market price would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 to $9.00 a barrel for crude oil (which is close to what it was in 1998/99!). As the new technologies come along there will be less demand for gasoline, which in the short-run will make our gasoline even cheaper! In the long-run production will shift to whatever the fuel cell cars/trucks (or other new thecnologies) end up using, at that point gasoline (or a workable substitute) suitable for our cars will start to get more pricey. I would GUESS gasoline (or a workable substitute) will be readily available for at least 50 years, and then available for an increasingly steep price for the next 100 to 150 years or so. After that it would get mega expensive. But by the time all that happens we will be long gone, and the new hot rods will be able to blow the doors off of what we are putting around in.

John Harvey
 

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It is inevitable that the oil supplies will be used up.

Well... methanol is an option, but carbs have to be recalibrated, not just re-jetted... and there is no detonation or loss of HP, even get a gain in useable torque! Now as for me... I'm 44 & remember real gas. There's no way this country will let the big 2(DCP is a MB so it doesn't count)ever have a problem with selling it's stuff so that'll be forever.
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Alcohol is definitely a good alternative fuel source......but it takes space and time to grow the stuff that makes it......soon the demand will exhaust the supply as well.....

I say a pressurized hydrogen system will solve the mid east dependency problem....

3/4 of this world are covered with water.....taking solids out of the water will yield minerals, they can sell that,

breaking water up will yield hydrogen...the fuel source

it will also yield oxygen......a good by product for medical industry.

and when burned, will turn back to water.....

This is something I will be working on after attaining my BA then Masters in Mech Eng.

ALl older cars will have to be injected.....and a pressurized fuel system retrofitted....
 

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In the 70's when fuel injection came on board, japanese econoboxes hit our shores, and Uncle Sam mandated efficiency standards, the average automoble MPG basically doubled. This is the equivalent of doubling the earths supply of fossil fuels. In the early 1900's, farming techniques were developed to get 10 times the crop per acre, this essentially added 10 times more land to the earths surface. "Scarce resources" is a myth, always overcome by technology. I guess what I'm saying is, don't worry about no gas in your or your childrens lifetimes. Your grandchildren on the other hand ...
 
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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

It is inevitable that the oil supplies will be used up.

<hr></blockquote>

This is simply not true. Its a black/white view of the world we live in.

Oil will become increasing scarce. Provided we have found all the reserves on earth (and there is considerable debate about that), as we pump oil we will gradually deminish the available supply (again the rate is a matter of debate). At some point, it will become financially impractical to continue using petroleum fuels for the transportation of the masses. However, the supply will still be there and in a perfect system the supply would dwindle and the price would keep going up. You would eventually reach an asymptotic condition. There would be a supply, but it would be impractically small. From an economic persepective, petroleum's use as a mass fuel will cease long before the available supply is gone simple because market forces will drive us to other fuels. You might not want to pay 10 dollars a gallon for gasoline, but you might not mind 15 dollars for a jar of vasoline or 10 dollars for a quart of oil. When petroleum goes up to 4 to 5 dollars a gallon in the US, alcohol becomes cost competitive. The conversion is inexpensive and many will go this route if an infrastructure exists.

As far as pressurized fuels go, there is no infrastructure to support this type of fuel. I can't see every mom and pop fuel station getting a big hydrogen tank (or propane tank). Compressed natural gas might be OK since we already have a delivery system in the ground, but you have to compress it to a liquid to get enough in a vehicle to be useful.

So far, the hybrid electric seems most favorable in the short term. Pick your liquid fuel to run the electric generator.

I don't see a near term future in the total electric car. Unless there is a significant breakthrough in battery technology then the energy density of batterys just doesn't work except for real short commutes. (and we generate electricity by fossil fuels anyway)
 
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I think we should look for an alternative energy source. The motivation for getting away from using oil based fuels shoouldn't only be their availability; what about the environmental impact of using them?
It's only been 80 years or so since we started using oil based fuel and look at the damage that's been caused to the environment so far. I now live in a country where kids get sent home from school if they don't bring a hat to wear when they are outside, skin cancer is a huge problem, you generally don't go out in the sun without lots of sunscreen on and all because of holes in teh ozone layer caused by the burning of fossil fuels.
Not so long ago (in the scheme of things) people were using whale oil to power machinery. The Mechanical revolution is progressing very fast.
I'm thinking we should start planning where to put the next generation fuel cell - Maybe a Black and Decker Mr Fusion like on the De Lorean in Back to the Future.
 
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