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Discussion Starter #1
I have a fairly fresh 351w, Torker II intake, holly 600 dbl pmpr (have an extra Edel. 750), 3:89 gears, 3000 stall in C4, mild cam, headers, roller rocks but stock heads... I was lookin to spend around $1500, figure I'd spend it on something good for the stang before school starts cause i'll just waste it on stupid stuff. Thought about the GT 40s but have some extra cash, why not go up a notch. What size intake runner should they have, I see everything from 170cc to 240cc. AFR, Trick Flow, Edelbrock? Any ideas?

Group buy perhaps?

Thanks
Mike
 

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Personally, I'm getting ready to build a similar engine for my '69 sportsroof. I have decided on the AFR 185's (58cc chambers). I probably won't buy the heads until after I get my bonus next month, unless some sort of group buy was to come up, and that's what charge cards are for :D
 

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you can get a set of AFR 165's for a bit less than that....

these heads flow well and are good for the price. I have to admit, AFR's port designs are among the best for the price. These heads will provide excellent low end torque AND good breathing room in the upper powerband.

Make sure the heads you get are compatible with the roller rocker setup you are running. ALso make sure the valve sizes are compatible with the piston type. ie:piston to valve clearance.

other than that, order them up, bolt them on and feel the power!!
I predict a good 25-30hp increase if not a bit more and at least 45 ft lbs of torque increase give or take a few.
 

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For your combo it would be hard to beat the Edelbrock Performer RPM heads Part mumber #60229 (That's one complete head). These will flow great on a 351 street engine and still clear the stock eyebrows in the pistons. Anything bigger then 1.90 intakes will require machining the pistons. Same with the Trick Flow twisted wedge heads - they require a different piston altogether. The new Holley heads look interesting but I have no first hand experience with them so maybe someone else can shed some light on those.
 

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The magazine "Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords" (or something like that) did a pretty good head comparison for 9 different brands ranging from Holley to AFR to Edelbrock to a few others. I've never seen this magazine before, but buoght it this time because this article in particular was pretty good. The comparison is supposed to continue in the next issue with 9 MORE heads...might be worth checking out...
 

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I would have to go with the AFR heads. One of the Mustang mags just did an article. They put AFR 165's on a 5.0 and picked up 75 hp. NO cam change either. That is what I want for SWMBO's coupe.
 

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I'd recommend AFR as well. I've got some and I'm more than satisfied. But I'd also recommend you take a look at your cam specs. You may consider a change of cam to take advantage of the potential in the AFRs.

All depends on what you have and what you want performance wise.

Contact Brian at www.adperformance.com for some good pricing on AFR heads. I got mine thru JDs in Florida, but from what I've seen and heard, Brian's prices are best right now. Be prepared to wait. Some shops don't stock a lot of AFR heads. And if they do, the price may be higher than if you can wait a few weeks.

Good luck with your project. :)
 

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You could get Trick Flows, roller rockers, and a set of hardened pushrods for less than $1500. I got my basic TFS heads assembled with the correct Ferrea valves and bronze guides here:
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/products/fordhead/index.htm

If you compare the area under the curve on the flow charts between the TFS 170cc and the AFR 185cc, you'll see they flow about the same, although the AFRs would be better with a lift if .600" or more.

Here's TFS's 170cc runner specs:
Lift Value (in.) As Cast
Intake/Exhaust Flow
CFM CFM
0.100 63 53
0.200 141 107
0.300 205 144
0.400 233 171
0.500 251 187
0.600 251 193
 

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Here is the airflow data for both size runner AFRs
AFR 165cc (Windsor)
intake Exhaust
valve sizes .100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .100 .200 .300 .400 .500
1.90 1.60   123 186 225 250 250   118 153 178 185 191

AFR 185cc (Windsor)
2.02 1.60   129 189 224 267 282   118 153 178 185 191

TFS Twisted Wedge (.600") .100 .200 .300.400 .500 .600
2.02 1.60 68 133 199 240 252 243 56 106 142 173 191 201

So as you can see, the 2.02/1.60 combo on the TFS heads barely outflow the 1.90/1.60 valve combo on the AFRs, notice the low valve lift airflow......AFR 165's will give you better port velocity at lower valve lifts and hardly a smidgeon of a differnce in airflow at higher rpms....now THAT is a good cyl head design.....exhaust ports have hardly any differences at igh valve lift, the big difference favors the AFRs at once again, low valve lifts airflow, so you know the designs are good.

I'd go AFR 165's

excellent low valve lift airflow = excellent torque
 

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Roberto:

Those numbers look a bit different from the ones published on the respective sites. Are those from independent tests?
 

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Personally, based on your sig line I'd skip the really expensive heads for now and upgrade those drum brakes to front disk. All go and no stop usually ends up in no go. For that matter you might be able to get front disks and either pick up a set of cast iron GT40s or have your stock heads massaged for the cost of a set of AFRs.
 

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Yes, that dyno test of 13 heads convinced me that the research I was doing on the AFR heads was correct - AFR seems to have the best out there right now for flow. In fact, they dyno'd the 13 heads and the AFRs beat all the others with a 90 HP gain... turns into a pretty cheap $/HP ratio...

-bob
 

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Here they are side by side. I got the numbers from the Trick Flow and AFR sites:

TFS 170cc vs AFR 185cc (intake/exhaust)
---------TFS-------AFR------
.100"---63/53----no data
.200"--141/107--129/118
.300"--205/144--189/153
.400"--233/171--234/178
.500"--251/187--267/185
.600"--251/193--277/191

Looks like the TFS heads flow higher at lower lifts. And with a .500" lift cam I'd say they're pretty close. I made my choice based on the Fordmuscle test, which produced similar numbers. Too bad you have to pay to see it now. :( The MM&FF article sounds interesting. I'll have to pick it up.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the info, definitly leaning towards the AFR 165 or 185...
Yeah, i've thought about getting disks, especially before I started driving this mustang, but this cars only gets driven three times a week at most. I'll be goin to school soon so that'll be even less. It has the bigger 2 1/2 drums on it, so it stops i guess better then the other drums out there. To tell you the truth, if i didn't know they were drums, especially with the addition on the brake booster, I might have assumed they were disks. Couple that with the fact I don't drive like an A-hole, tapping the gas and gettin sideways around a turn on a rainy day is more of an issue than stopping
 

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Are you racing it, or plan on racing it? If not, then why spend the money on AFRs? If you're not drag racing and drums are enough to get you stopped and slowed down for your driving style, then you're not driving hard enough to see any benefit from your current set-up or future AFRs. I'm not knocking AFRs, they're great heads. I'm just trying to be practicle: based on your sig line I don't see the need. If you're still running the 14" Magnums w/I'm guessing regular street tires, then you're probably having trouble with traction anyways so the low end advantage of AFRs is reduced. If 4 wheel drums are adequate to get you slowed down coming into corners and/or stopped from speed then you probably aren't driving it hard enough to justify them on the high end either. I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but it seems like the money maybe better spent upgrading the wheels/tires, brakes, suspension, or something else so that you can take advantage of the AFRs. Maybe I'm being too practicle, but I just hate to see you dump that kind of money into heads that the advantage comes when you make them use those flow numbers. Just my $.02
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Oh i know what you're saying, but as soon as I got 389 gears, practicality went out the window. A matter of fact, traction from a start is a bit of a problem, but i don't race this car, I just want more power when i get going, like just stomping on it in second gear going 25 mph or whatever. I should have clarified, I don't drive hard whens theres other people on the road or with anything haveing to due with turning the wheel, but I do drive it hard. Nothing better then the look on peoples face when i go through the gears on the c4 (reverse manual valve body). The suspension was upgraded by the previous owner with globalwest and konis, and since the tires are almost new, I can't justify getting bigger wheels, yet. but hey, i'm young and stupid, so thats my excuse, haha
 
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