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I never liked the ball pivots. I eliminated them on my 289HP. Very stable, doesn't scrape the pushrod guides, runs quieter, needs less adjusting.

BOSS 289
 

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Discussion Starter #42
NMB, another 'not very often, but should check',.....usually see this in an FE with a big cam, but have seen some small blocks,....where the pushrod goes through the guides, is it hitting the oval part of the holes and jamming the the pushrods and heavily loading the rockers ? Is the slot long enough in the rockers that you're not hitting the end of it at full lift ? Other than running drip tab covers, have you considered running another brand of rockers, just to see what happens ? The VR1 oil is fine. LSG
Thanks LSG, thanks for sticking with me.

Plenty of slot left at fully open and fully closed I'm afraid.

Yes, this all started with PRW rockers then moved on to the Comp units with the same result.

At this point I have to believe it's some kind of oiling problem but don't know what just yet. I'm going to check again the volume and hopefully the pattern of oil exiting the rocker arms. Like you mention relative to the FE(s) some have reported not enough oil actually making it to the pivot balls (with exactly the same result as I'm seeing) and mostly overshooting that critical area. Had a couple of ideas related to this - opening up the oil hole in the rocker just a little so as to reduce the exit pressure (the thought being a little more dribble) or a spring-steel oil guide mounted to a longer poly-lock set screw.

Thanks all.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
So how does one know if enough oil is getting to the rocker fulcrums - aside from them burning up that is?

Today I put the cut out valve covers with clear plexi on so I could inspect while running.

First thing I noticed is it took what seemed like way too long before oil started flowing through to the rockers - a good 2 minutes or more even. I think the last time I ran it was last weekend to get it turned around. I expect some bleed-down but it seemed like an awfully long time to start flowing.

Next, when it did start to flow, though a little anemic in my view, most seemed to be pretty well bathed, some more than others but no real pattern (like if a freeze plug was missing). Each showed some pooling at the base of the rocker so I felt like each probably had enough. Nothing squeaked or sounded like it was galling. I did take the precaution of oiling the fulcrums manually before starting though.

Next, I let it run up to temp and inspected along the way, nothing unusual to note during this period, fulcrums continued to show signs being oiled.

Next was to run the rpm up to (2k) so as to take note of any changes. What I did see was that oil exiting the weep hole in the rocker began to spray and spit rather than flow like it did at idle and the valley in the rocker from the weep hole to the fulcrum didn't look near as full and wet. But I have to say one's ability to see clearly with the oil coating the plexi is diminished. I would think MORE oil should flow as rpm increases rather than what seemed like less and in an irregular pattern

Now, I expected a spraying pattern of some sort at rpm above idle but it really looked like the nice flow to the fulcrum was drying up - which if true I would think could/would result in the rocker fulcrums starving for oil.

Let's keep in mind oil pressure is typically 60-65 lbs though I've seen it a little less when warm and at idle - like about 55 lbs and all rockers on both sides show evidence of overheating - some more than others.

So a few questions for those that care to comment:

Should more oil be flowing as rpm increases or no?
Is the spraying pattern described sound anywhere near normal?
What could cause oil flow to be restricted at rpm, oil pump pickup too low in the pan?

Really want/need to get this figured out soon - I'm not getting any younger.

Thanks all - I look forward to your great wisdom and guidance.
 

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1965 Ford Mustang fastback T5 Ncas 9in Locker
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And you sure you are getting oil up thru the pushrods... no restrictions. Have you tried a drill and run it in reverse with a primer rod to see how much oil comes out of the troubled rod vs the others?
 

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Discussion Starter #45
And you sure you are getting oil up thru the pushrods... no restrictions. Have you tried a drill and run it in reverse with a primer rod to see how much oil comes out of the troubled rod vs the others?
Technically no, I haven't done the priming exercise but to be clear, they're all getting oil. There isn't a "troubled rod" as compared to others... they're all troubled. What appears to be happening is they're all not getting enough oil to the fulcrums (or should I say pivot balls) at speed, but happy clams at low rpm.
 

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In looking at the oiling diagram for SBF, it appears all the oil is driven up through the lifters and pushrods, where it "sprays" the top end. If as you say, the oil appears anemic at the push rod end and you have good oil pressure measured by a reliable pressure gauge, then I would suspect the roller lifters as as perhaps an incorrect choice. Oil must get from the lifter up through the rods, if there is too much lifter clearance, or the oil holes don't line up e.g. for some reason you got lifters for a different application. That is where I would go next.

You might check out videos of fords running with modified valve covers. Here is one, in stock trim the oil just runs right down the center of the rocker. As I look at this video and your rockers, there appears to be deflectors over the pushrod hole that keeps the oil in the valley of the rocker well oiling the pivot. Would love to see a video of yours running to see if the oil is overshooting especially at higher RPMs


Personally I worry that you are pushing the edges of destroying the builder's warranty, it might be time to take it out and let him fix it.

Good Luck!

One last thought, look up your lifters and see if they have some need for special pushrods or odd adjustment specs...
 

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Discussion Starter #47
In looking at the oiling diagram for SBF,...
Thanks for your post and the video.

I don't have near the volume of oil flowing as shown in your video, here's a short one of mine...


The lifters are for sure spec'd for this application as near as I can tell from published information. And nothing special noted.

If I could find some clips (deflectors) designed for regular driving use I'd try them in a heartbeat... but I haven't found any yet. All I've seen are only recommended for adjustment purposes.

Warranty? Well, the motor was built I think about 5 years ago, sat for almost 3 years while the rest of the car was being completed, wasn't used for another year while the interior was being done then, when put into service last year this cropped up. I have no expectation of warranty at this point. For the time being I'm stuck trying to get this figured out on my own.

Thanks!
 

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FIrst, this was not my video but one I found, second you have an oil flow issue. You need to track down why your oil is not getting to the rockers in the volume you need. If you have oil pressure then the pushrods need to come out. IF they are not clogged then the lifters need to come next. If you have a bad cam bearing you could be losing oil from that circuit. Check the flow diagram out, you are losing pressure somewhere along the way. You need to be methodical in thinking this through.

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Did you mean that on a warm engine it is showing 55psi at idle? That’s very high, on a mild street engine. Gauge could be wrong?
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Did you mean that on a warm engine it is showing 55psi at idle? That’s very high, on a mild street engine. Gauge could be wrong?
Yes, 55 psi warm at idle. Could the gauge be wrong - I suppose so but I have no reason to believe it is. It's a mechanical gauge, drops to 0 when not running and rises smoothly on startup. Even shows 10-20 psi or so on cranking without starting.
 

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So maybe oil starvation at higher rpm’s? If you have a high Pressure/volume pump and a stock capacity pan, I could see that as a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
So maybe oil starvation at higher rpm’s? If you have a high Pressure/volume pump and a stock capacity pan, I could see that as a problem.
What's the concern with HP/V pump and stock pan? I don't have a stock pan but rather the Cobra finned aluminum t-pan.

Thanks.
 

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The engine can literally pump the 5 quarts faster than the engine can return it to the pan. Not saying that is happening, just that it is an issue. The T-Pan should remedy that issue with an additional quart or two.
 

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The T pan should have 7 qts.. did you use the stock pick up. I was told that is what you should use by Branda.
 

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66, the idea that a high volume pump can suck a pan dry is a fable told by senior married ladies. It cannot and does not happen. That is not the problem, its mythology. LSG
 
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