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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, did some searching and didn't find an answer.
Looking at getting Coyote engine ordered. They all say that a dual mass flywheel comes installed and that it will have to be changed out for regular flywheel. Even when you order package deal with transmission included, a new flywheel is included.
So can anyone explain to me why this pricey piece of hardware is installed as it comes from the factory if it is not for consumer use? I am sure there must be a good reason but with my limited knowledge of drive trains, it escapes me.

Daniel
 

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The 1st Generation Ford diesel pickups ('84-'94) equipped with the 5 speed transmission came with a dual mass flywheel. Something about transmission gear "rollover". The clutch disc had no springs as they were in the flywheel. A new dual mass flywheel for those trucks is EXPENSIVE so most owners swap to a single mass flywheel and a spring loaded clutch disc when the dual mass fails. Some owners report hearing the "rollover" noise after converting.
I suppose the Coyote has a dual mass flywheel for the same reason and it has been shown that the dual mass is not really needed.
 

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My web search reveals the DMF was added to the Third-Gen Coyote mostly to help the MT82 manual trans shift smoother. In other words, it's a refinement you likely don't need in a performance hot rod.

The Gen-1 crate motor was very attractive at about $5K. Direct injection is great and all that, but the Gen-3 crate motor now costs about $9K. At that price, I think I'd rather Have MMR deliver a tricked out 5.2L Coyote with the Voodoo block and heads.

I've been wondering why my plain Coyote F150 XL with rubber floors only cost $21K in late 2012 while the exact same truck costs $31K just 8 years later. I still get 18 MPG city and 20 MPG highway with my Gen-1 Coyote. CAFE forces Ford to squeeze another 1 to 3 MPG out via Direct Injection, that dratted auto start/stop crap, an all-aluminum body, plus a million gear transmission. I love technology and free-market competition, but how expensive does gas need to be to offset a $10K price difference over 8 years?

Sorry! Rant over. I'm going to shop for a used Gen-1 F150 XL Coyote as a backup vehicle. I think I can buy one for less than a new Gen-3 crate motor.
 

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... mostly to help the MT82 manual trans shift smoother. In other words, it's a refinement you likely don't need in a performance hot rod.
Or if you have a manual transmission that doesn't suck duck eggs. :whistle: (Google Getrag MT82 class action lawsuit.)
 
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@stephen_wilson, this is a base, white, steel wheels, no options XL with rubber floors and cloth seats. Basically, it's a U-Haul rental truck. Eight years ago the exact same truck cost almost 30% less. I suspect most of the increase is the Direct Injection ($2K?), aluminum body ($5K?), and extras to make the stupid auto start/stop feature work ($1K?). Your guess is good as anybody's, but I don't see how the $80K ego-truck craze is a factor.

@GypsyR, agreed. Throw a T56 Magnum behind it and fuggettaboutit.
 

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I haven't studied the evolution, but I'm sure it has more HP ? Back-up camera ? Of course there's inflation. Prices have always climbed regardless of fuel economy mandates.
 

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I don't know about the trucks but all that ADAS stuff came about for cars in that timeline.
 

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Well, it sounds to me like a crutch fix of some kind or other to compensate for something else that would be way more expensive to fix. Why wouldn't a properly balanced, proper weight flywheel work? Why did we have to have this special dual mass contraption developed?

So I looked it up;

"The vibration reduction is achieved by accumulating stored energy in the two flywheel half masses over a period of time but damped by a series of strong springs, doing that at a rate that is compatible with the energy source, and then releasing that energy at a much higher rate over a relatively short time. A compact dual-mass flywheel often includes the whole clutch, including the pressure plate and the friction disc.".

It still sounds like a contraption that was contrived to deal with something else that would be a lot more expensive to fix properly. The only part that really makes sense would be the last comment that the clutch is often integrated so the flywheel, clutch disc/s and pressure plate are all part of one assembly. That sounds like progress.
 

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I don't see it that way at all, it's just the natural progression of sprung clutch hubs and marcel construction. Not to mention NVH changes like stiffer acc. brackets, fluid-filled or active engine/sub-frame mounts, and on and on. Driven by the masses that want to drive an appliance that's as comfy as their couch.
 

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@CJM68GT390, how are safety mandates different comparing 2012 vs 2020? I'm curious what my 2012 truck is "lacking" in safety.
There were three major updates in safety requirements between 2012 and 2016. With more to come.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ok guys, just to get the thread back on topic, I researched dual mass flywheel before posting and have an idea what it does. Just can't figure out why Ford Racing would install such a pricey piece on a crate motor for it to be removed and replaced by the buyer. Ford doesn't even sell or recommend the stock Getrag with their crate motors, they sell the Tremac with standard flywheel. Delete the DMF and include the alternator or such.
 

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Hard to say why, unless their target application is assumed to be using one ? I'm sure it's wasn't marketed for vintage Mustangs. Then it just becomes like any other pre-packaged product built to a price point: No substitutions.

Have you called to see if you can order it without ?
 

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Just can't figure out why Ford Racing would install such a pricey piece on a crate motor for it to be removed and replaced by the buyer.
My guess: Probably because they don't install anything, but get the engines from the same assembly line that deliver engines to the car assembly line.They may need a flywheel for some testing of the engines, so they mount the final one used in the cars these engines are ment for. If Ford Racing should have the engines delived without flywheel it would ad more work and logistics. A dual mass flywheel are also seen as a wear part, often changed together with the clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
My guess: Probably because they don't install anything, but get the engines from the same assembly line that deliver engines to the car assembly line.They may need a flywheel for some testing of the engines, so they mount the final one used in the cars these engines are ment for. If Ford Racing should have the engines delived without flywheel it would ad more work and logistics. A dual mass flywheel are also seen as a wear part, often changed together with the clutch.
I was kind of thinking some kind of spin testing, guess maybe it is more trouble to take back off than it is worth to them. Indication that there is big difference between what they cost Ford and what they sell them for.
 
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