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Discussion Starter #1
Ok instead of going the cheapo route I am trying to do my paint job the right way, Starting to strip my car to bare metal( thats allot of work with a DA and 60grit) once I am finished with that, my research says, clean the metal with metl prep ( not etch) and spray 1-2 coats of epoxy primer.
Here is my question after the next step metal work and bondo (generic term) shoul I put another coat of epoxy, before I go to the Urethane high build primer should I spray a different color over the epoxy (red oxide) that way when I start to block sand the hi build primer I know when I have gone to low
 

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After you do your filler work, I would touch up any spots where you may have sanded to bare metal with epoxy primer. Then I would use a sprayable polyester primer like Evercoat Feather Fill G2 or your favorite brand for the high build primer. Polyester primers do not shrink, urethane primer do. Once the car is straight and ready for paint, then apply a thin but full coat of urethane primer to seal the polyester primer. Do your final blocking and your ready for epoxy sealer, paint, then clear.
 

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I always stayed with same colors and then applied a light misting guide coat from an aerosol to use as my visual during block sanding.

If you are using gray primers, your aerosol will be black. Red primer, black guide coat. Black primer white or silver guide coat.

You are on the right track understanding how important the use of guide coats are to the final flat and scratch free product.

Use this same technique on your filler work. Spray the aerosol guide coat on the filler as well to achieve perfection and have fun!
 

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My Mach 1 was the first car I ever painted. As you are seeing, there are many different techniques. I watched the Kevin Tetz "Paintucation" video series and it was extremely helpful. Highly recommend it. Also, going with SPI products was a very big help. They have good documentation and tech support. See their "Perfect Paint Job" article.



Have fun!
 

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After you do your filler work, I would touch up any spots where you may have sanded to bare metal with epoxy primer. Then I would use a sprayable polyester primer like Evercoat Feather Fill G2 or your favorite brand for the high build primer. Polyester primers do not shrink, urethane primer do. Once the car is straight and ready for paint, then apply a thin but full coat of urethane primer to seal the polyester primer. Do your final blocking and your ready for epoxy sealer, paint, then clear.
I have been painting cars over 40 years, products are constantly changing and this is good solid advice. Nothing more important in a good paintjob than a good foundation.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hey Klutch,
Everytime someone mentions painting on nthis site SPI comes up lol. I calle an spoke to the guy Barry I think, great guy, Like I said in a previous post i just cant afford the proucts and I am not their target. They seem to be the best of the best everybody swears by them with not one bad review which is an amazing track record.
However Im not that guy, if I had a shop or I was charging people for my work then maybe I could justify it, but I have heard good reviews on kirker by some people I respect and I bought a gallon of epoxy and a gallon of activator 1:1 ratio for less than a gallon of SPI epoxy.
Like I said, for the real paint guys yea its worth it but for a first timer like me, ehhhh
 

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Hey Klutch,
Everytime someone mentions painting on nthis site SPI comes up lol. I calle an spoke to the guy Barry I think, great guy, Like I said in a previous post i just cant afford the proucts and I am not their target. They seem to be the best of the best everybody swears by them with not one bad review which is an amazing track record.
However Im not that guy, if I had a shop or I was charging people for my work then maybe I could justify it, but I have heard good reviews on kirker by some people I respect and I bought a gallon of epoxy and a gallon of activator 1:1 ratio for less than a gallon of SPI epoxy.
Like I said, for the real paint guys yea its worth it but for a first timer like me, ehhhh
I think that’s a reasonable, if not preferred approach for a first time paint job. There’s great advice on the thread but some of the material costs are high end.

For a good first time job you can do a basic layer approach and get good results. This is what I see as a minimum while still not breaking the bank.

Hit it with the Kirker as soon as practical after you hit bare metal. Around here we can do bare shells without a primer over bare metal as it doesn’t rust that quickly. Some places aren’t that lucky as surface rust hits right away.

Filler and filler blocking over the Kirker. I use one of the Evercoat fillers, usually Z Grip but they have a generic lower cost filler that works well too.

Over that use a good/mid quality high build. I’ve used U-Pol and Tamco. Both can be direct to metal if needed. My preference is Tamco as I like how it sands better and it can be quite a bit thicker build if needed. Either is about $100/gallon with activator.

Guide coat for blocking is great advice. I use a powder but a lot of people use the spray. It’s a personal preference as to which one.

After it’s blocked I seal it with a reduced version of whatever high build I use. I chose the brands above because they can be reduced and used as a sealer. I have used gray because it’s easy to get and available but to make a color pop you can use a sealer color to more complement the base. On a collision touch up on the Mustang I found a white sealer worked better than the gray on Lime Gold. If nothing else and you don’t want to spend more on another sealer the reduced gray high build will be plenty good.

Get as good a base and clear as you can afford. I’ve use a few bases but I like Deltron DBC the best of them. It’s also more expensive but you can get it gray market on ebay. For less expensive factory matches there‘s Nason, Shopline or Omni. If you aren’t going for a factory color there are plenty of options that are more affordable like Kirker.

Same on the clear. The last car I did I used Tamco and before that I used U-Pol. Either one about $100/gallon with activator and they are easy to use for a beginner with an entry level gun. The higher end clears are expensive, can be tricky for a novice and need a pro gun to go down properly.

For a first time paint I don’t see why you couldn’t use Kirker on every layer. You know it will be compatible with the other layers and it’s reasonably priced. My understanding is that Summit and Eastwood brands are rebadged Kirker. Even with basic, quality materials and above all patience and an understanding of the principles you can get a good paint job on a budget in your garage.
 

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So long as you stick with the same product line or at least triple+ check for compatibility.

Funny from what I see "first timers" (I'm one) seem so easily sold on the twelve layer paint job as if they were "real painters". With there being so many potential failure points on every product layer if something goes wrong weeks or months later how will you ever know for sure what went wrong?

I feel like the $300 I spent on 2 gallons of Tamco 5311 was the best decision I made. That one product did the same job as 3-4 others.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
LMAO 12 layer paint job.
You are so right it kind of funny,

Its interesting how this all transpired. I wasnt even planning to paint my car, I just like to tinker my mustang is my playground. I have repeately hear a paint job is only as good as the prep work. I thought if I strip the car, that will take some of the work away from the painter and get it back quicker, then i read the next steps of the paint job,( spray epoxy primer) ,,,,, i thought well i can do that. and only $100 for 2 sprayable gallons,
It gives me a project to work on and lets me learn my car Even if i take it to my painter still Im sure he will apreciate the work that I have done an then he can take it from there
 

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Too many variables, sounds like your doing yours with a DA? That would depend on what's left of the current finish, what grit you use, how fast it plugs up the paper, equipment you use, etc. I think you will be able to make your own best guess by doing a panel and seeing how long that takes. If you have to use 36 grit, you will have a lot of work to do before you even shoot your epoxy. If you can get away with 80 grit then you will be that much closer. If your 60 grit works well, then I can assume most of your current paint is almost gone and is old and dry and would probably not take long to strip.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yea I was usig a Da, it took me two days to do the back quarter panel Gonna try the angle grinder and cleaning disc route on the hood tomorrow and see how long that takes.
Im not keen on the checmical route but i o have some aircraft stripper but that seems messy .
 

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Be very careful using a grinder, even a cleaning disk can gouge the metal and make your painter hate you. 2 days is not right, try using 40 grit and then come back with 80.

The product on the right is an epoxy that makes a great primary or final sealer as it is sandable and will fill and seal like crazy. My local PPG dealer sells as part of their performance line. It also tintable toward your final color. The feather fill as mentioned earlier is a great polyester primer filler.

751264
 

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Even if i take it to my painter still Im sure he will apreciate the work that I have done an then he can take it from there
Chances are you'll probably irritate him more than anything. If he is like most professional painters, he will strip off what you've done and redo it with what he knows will work. Otherwise he will not guarantee the job. Most painters don't like to paint over your own work, or they will but won't guarantee it.

Fastest way to strip is PSA sanding discs (60 or 80 grit) on a flexible pad on a 6" or 8" buffer.

Don't use an angle grinder to strip, but if you do, use a wire wheel. They strip pretty quickly, but you will need to go over the metal again with 80 grit DA just to give it some tooth since wirewheels burnish/polish the metal.

High build polyester primers are nice, expensive, do a lot of filling. You may or may not need one. I use them for the worst panels. The SPI 2k high build urethane primer has minimal shrinkage and works well. Actually I wouldn't even worry about shrinkage if I were you.

The poly primer comes with its own troubles, just FYI. It requires a large gun to shoot (I use a 2.5 mm cannon) and has a short pot life, so you need to get it out of the gun within 30 min or it will start to set up. But it fills like crazy.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Wow that is interesting that you recommended a wire wheel instead of the cleaning disc i thought the wire wheel was more abrasive and would damage the metal.
i think its taking so long because I am being extremely particuar, takiing it to bare metal to me means that every single inch should be metal not one speck of the old primer no matter how long it tkes me to get it off
 

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How long does it take you guys to strip a car
Usually three songs if I’m sitting at the rail... ? ?

Oh, you said car, sorry.

I like using a DA though some places I use a flap wheel when needed. Take your time, don’t be concerned with how long it takes. The big dogs will have it dipped or blasted. Chemicals work well to remove the coatings if you use the right chemical. The current aircraft stripper they sell in retail stores isn’t what it once was. You can get commercial grade stripper some of which require a business license or newer water based industrial grade that blows away the retail grade stripper. Chemicals are expensive, messy, require good PPE, are toxic as hell and you’ll still have scuff the substrate to get a profile for your epoxy. Depending on your sealer you may need to treat the substrate to remove the chemical residue.

One area in which I don’t cut corners are the quality of the abrasives. I use either Mirka or 3M. I‘m using hook and loop on 3” and 6” air DAs with a 3/32 orbit. Any reasonable quality DA will do.

Take your time, learn the proper methods and you’ll get a great base on which to paint. You’re on the right track. Best practices dictate all the previous coatings, fillers, everything comes off and is down to bare metal. Even though you are using entry level grade materials you still shouldn’t skimp on the basics of prep. That is going to determine the quality of your job perhaps more so than the paint system you use.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks Vegas,,, 3 songs,,,, wow youve done this before lol

I was using a dewault single speed 5 inch DA,,, no bueno,,,, heading to Harbor freight to get a 6inch Air DA today.
 

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I don't think I could afford dust masks to do mine now:(
It depends on the top coat and layers under it..
My top coat was I think Imron about 30 years old and where it was still good it was great, man was that stuff tuff to break through. Even 40grit on a DA was tiresome. I did use a grinder with a flap disc to crack that first layer in a fraction of the time, Luckily it had a thick coat of high build under that. I was also surprised at how much could be taken off with a razor scraper, sometimes through 5-6 layers of stuff straight to the metal, try it.

PS. Even with my compressor outside I HATE AIR TOOLS! if you want a new tool I would suggest a smaller one that will get into more tight spots.
 

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Hey Klutch,
Everytime someone mentions painting on nthis site SPI comes up lol. I calle an spoke to the guy Barry I think, great guy, Like I said in a previous post i just cant afford the proucts and I am not their target. They seem to be the best of the best everybody swears by them with not one bad review which is an amazing track record.
However Im not that guy, if I had a shop or I was charging people for my work then maybe I could justify it, but I have heard good reviews on kirker by some people I respect and I bought a gallon of epoxy and a gallon of activator 1:1 ratio for less than a gallon of SPI epoxy.
Like I said, for the real paint guys yea its worth it but for a first timer like me, ehhhh
Maybe the SPI prices have gone up since I bought their products. I don't recall the SPI epoxy costing twice as much as the Kirker. If that's the case, sure, go with Kirker. I've never used it, but I've heard many people say they had good results with it.
 

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heading to Harbor freight to get a 6inch Air DA today.
No don't do that, you'll be returning just as fast as you left to bought it. Don't even bother taking it out of the packaging. Cheap pneumatic DAs suck. I hate pneumatic DAs period. You want their electric buffer and get some hook and loop 6" 80 sanding discs off Amazon for it.

Pneumatic DAs take a massive compressor and lots of air, and they're still not that fast. I'm stripping a large hood as I speak with a pneumatic DA, my 60 gallon compressor is running nonstop, because I ran out of sanding discs for the buffer.

It's electric, you won't run out of air, it won't bog down, and you'll need the buffer anyway after you paint your car.
 
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