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429 or 460?

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k_schutte

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am going to be putting a big block in the '73 Mach 1 and I just got a phone call from a guy who has two 429's and a 460 for sale. They are all late 60's-early 70's (he is getting the casting numbers for me tonight) all of them are low mileage and complete but have been sitting for years. I am wondering how I can tell the difference between the 420's and 460's when I go to look at them? He says he knows what is what but I just want ot make 100% sure. and to the best of my knowledge the stroke is the only real difference isn't it?
The guy is asking $150 each or $400 for all 3. I am going to see if by chance any are 4-bolt mains but if not I will probably go with a 429 (might just offer him $250 cash for both 429's and see what he says) as the 460 just brings to mind big 'ole boats like the Mercury Monterey and lincolns or trucks but 429 for some reason sparks more of the "muscle car" mind set.


Sorry if these are "newbbe" questions, I am 23 and this is going to be my first big block build. I have done probably 10+ SBF builds and a couple dozen SBC/4-banger builds but no big blocks yet.
 
#2 ·
Not one hundred percent sure but if you are going to pull the pans to check the main bolts then I believe if you see a 4U marking in the crank it is a 429. 460 would be a 2Y. Measuring the stroke is the only surefire way. 3.59 for 429, 3.85 for 460.
 
#3 ·
Only two real differences in blocks - deck height and four bolt mains. 429-460 blocks are basically all the same regardless of crank. Four bolt mains were installed on DOVE-A blocks, but they could be two bolt blocks too. I've seen 4 bolt blocks stuff in 460 cop cars - there wasn't a ryhme or reason when they were using up the blocks at the factory. The deck height on the early block is the shortest, the 70-71 was in the middle and smog motors were the tallest - but don't get hung up on that. they all work very well.
The rods are all the same length - the cranks are a longer stroke in the 460 3.59 compared to 3.85. The heads are the big change - D0OE heads are the big ones, cop cars I believe are D2s and all the passenger car heads are functionally the same, less the low comrpession heads.
If I were you I'd go ahead and get all three for $400 (that's cheap) and build the 460. The cubes are an easy horsepower grab. Good luck - let us know the numbers on the parts - we may want to buy your spares..... :)

Dave
 
#4 ·
Make sure they have not been sitting outside for years,,,that changes the whole picture.ALSO,,if any of them are pre-72 engines,,the very real possibility of burned exhaust valves/ cracked combustion chambers exists due to the high compression and bad gas when we were switching over to unleaded in the late 70's and 80's when those things still could have been in service.If they were 4 barell engines and 1971 or older,,they required high octane. I have had a "number" of the 429 and 460 engines from back then,,and got lucky with a couple,,but most had dire issues. Pull the valve covers,,if they have the big 5/8 nuts on the rockers,,and a 1971 casting or previous date,,,be very carefull of what you are buying. If they are the "cleveland" style stamped rockers,,then it's a later engine and it may be ok. I don't think Ford made a 429 after 72 though,,,and someone may straighten me out on that,,,so the 460 may be the norm from then on.The 4U crank was for the 429,,others would be a 460,,but to measure the stroke is really the only good way.Beware of those early engines as they are very prone to bad exhaust valves,,and burned pistons due to the timing getting screwed up along with cheap gas people used to run in them when the car became a "beater" to just drive around and they didn't care what was under the hood (other than it sucked gas like crazy,LOL).You have no way of truly knowing what those engines have been through in thier past life,,just remember this is 2010,,not 1978 when we could still find good big blocks a dime a dozen. Hope this helps some. Jeff K.
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys. As for the concerns, I am not planning to use anything but the block, crank and may be rods. The motor will be getting new pistons, camshaft, aluminum heads, intake etc...

It's just that the only bare block I have found around here are $200+ so when this guy said $150/$200 for a complete engine I wasn't going to turn that down!
 
#6 ·
i had a complete 69 429 and and 74 460 block i used for a build. both 2 bolt mains as were most all execpt the 429 boss cj scj. the 429/460 rods are the same BUT i used truck rods which are the same as cj rods and put arp wavelock bolts in. my 429 had a 10.300" deck and the 460 had a 10.322" deck. the 2 bolt mains are pretty stout with arp studs. the earlier blocks are thicker and the early 460 is internal ballanced.
 
#7 ·
I recently built a 460 using D0VE heads with screw in studs and roller rockers, wieand high rise intake, isky cam, and hypereutectic pistons. That thing had TONS of power. If you can get an early engine with D0VE heads, you would easily make your money back by selling them if you are using aluminum heads.
 
#8 · (Edited)
ajfriz said:
I recently built a 460 using D0VE heads with screw in studs and roller rockers, wieand high rise intake, isky cam, and hypereutectic pistons. That thing had TONS of power. If you can get an early engine with D0VE heads, you would easily make your money back by selling them if you are using aluminum heads.
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tons of power ? "YES" !!! i took a set of 1973 460 small port heads and had the exhaust ported and Manley stainless cobra jet valves with hardened seats installed ,screw in studs ,guide plates , combustion chambers equalized ,bowl porting ,etc. stealth intake ,custom hyd flat tappet cam , the 460 hauls azz and the rest of it to ! i would have used small port aluminum heads but they didnt exhist in 1995 ! or maybe it was 1996 when i did the heads !:shaking:
 
#9 ·
Check PAW i have always had good results from there short block assemblies and are often more cost effective than me sending out a block for all the machine work
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
ISLANDER said:
Check PAW i have always had good results from there short block assemblies and are often more cost effective than me sending out a block for all the machine work
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Thanks but I have a pretty good "hook up" at the machine shop and I find it much more rewarding to do as much as possible on my own. crate engiens and/or assembled short blocks just aren't for me.
 
#11 ·
there were some 429 truck engines in the 80"s
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
Broncoholic said:
460 all the way Unless you want a 1971-72 351, 4 bolt. CJ Cleveland, correct for your car. Open chamber 4V heads with a set of 12-1 TRW's that will put you @ 10.5 all there. stock everything. Just got it last week.
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my car was originaly a 302, def. doing a big block, just have to decide between the 429 or 460, I am thinking 429 still but I am waiting for him ot get back to me with the casting numbers so...
 
#16 ·
TommyK said:
I vote 460. There are a lot more piston options available there is no replacement for displacement.

Nobody will know but you.:)
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If the dollars are the same to build an engine, I would go with the 460. But for the asking price I would buy all three and sell two. I think the end result will be yours is free... which is always a good thing.
 
#17 ·
It still amazes me that Ford didn't think they should identify their big blocks with castings. A few months ago I bought what I thought was a CJ429 because it had the AA casting. Now I'm finding out it may or may not be a CJ and it may or may not even be a 429. :loco:
 
#18 ·
the only way to be sure on those 385 series engines is to pull the pan. ALL 429 CJ's had a bolt-on oil pump pickup screen.That's not to say it couldn't have been added to a rebuild of a generic 460 also,,but most people back then didn't build a 460 and didn't put a CJ oil pump in them,,they just used what was "stock". I recently bought a 429 Police Interceptor from a guy here in Louisville for 800.00 ,,i told him i didn't care "what" he was told years ago when he bought it,,no money was changing hands till we pulled the pan to verify a 4-bolt bottom end. It was,,and had a original CJ style pump,,and wasn't froze up,,,so i bought it. Turned out to have forged pistons factory too. But I wasn't going to buy a pig in a poke with out pulling the pan first. It also had factory virgin finned valve covers too. Jeff K. The engine is going into my 66 7-Litre ranch Wagon,,4-speed and all the options i can throw at it.
 
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#19 ·
:shocked:
69smach said:
the only way to be sure on those 385 series engines is to pull the pan. ALL 429 CJ's had a bolt-on oil pump pickup screen.That's not to say it couldn't have been added to a rebuild of a generic 460 also,,but most people back then didn't build a 460 and didn't put a CJ oil pump in them,,they just used what was "stock". I recently bought a 429 Police Interceptor from a guy here in Louisville for 800.00 ,,i told him i didn't care "what" he was told years ago when he bought it,,no money was changing hands till we pulled the pan to verify a 4-bolt bottom end. It was,,and had a original CJ style pump,,and wasn't froze up,,,so i bought it. Turned out to have forged pistons factory too. But I wasn't going to buy a pig in a poke with out pulling the pan first. It also had factory virgin finned valve covers too. Jeff K. The engine is going into my 66 7-Litre ranch Wagon,,4-speed and all the options i can throw at it.
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a 67 ranch wagon ? oooohhhhh !!! check out my 66 country seedan with a 460/4 speed toploader/locker ! Pictures by supershifter2 - Photobucket...:shocked::shaking:
 
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