Trying to ID a oil pump that's in a 302 engine. The cast-in numbers are:
221, VSA, M68, 67.
Is that enough info for an ID?
Thanks.
221, VSA, M68, 67.
Is that enough info for an ID?
Thanks.
302 oil pump ID, HV or Std?
74Rallye
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M68 is Melling standard volume for a small block Ford. M68HV is the high volume version.
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M68. The best oil pump you can use in a SBF.
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10,722 Posts
This was an interesting tech article contributed by Melling.
Advantages, Myths and Fables of High Volume Oil Pumps - Engine Builder Magazine
The oil pump’s most difficult task is to supply oil to the connecting rod bearing that is the farthest from the pump. To reach this bearing, the oil travels from three to four feet, turns numerous square corners through small holes in the crankshaft to the rod bearing. The rod bearing doesn’t...
www.enginebuildermag.com
I have run both standard and HV with no ill effects. (Current version is HV)
Run a hardened driveshaft on it....
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6,476 Posts
Probably the best internal oil pump you can buy. The one in the link is the standard volume, and both can be adjusted for pressure. This is not your off the shelf Melling pump
stores.precisionoilpumps.com
Blueprinted Melling Ford 302, 5.0 Standard Volume Race Pump
Blueprinted Melling Ford 302, 5.0 Standard Volume Race Oil Pump
stores.precisionoilpumps.com
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10,722 Posts
Melling provided a drive shaft with it.
It is pressure, not volume, that adds significant resistance to the pump turning. Both the HV and standard pumps are designed to provide the same maximum pressure via a bypass valve. Yes, I may be moving more oil (some going through the bypass valve) compared to a standard volume pump, but I can be sure that when the oil thins (hot, or older) and I decide to spin it to 6k+, I will have a little extra pump capacity to provide the volume necessary to maintain closer to design pressure. Also, as an engine wears and bearing clearances become greater, the extra volume helps keep that pressure loss at bay.
The only way a HV pump should break a shaft or distributor gear is if the pump bypass valve malfunctions (same could happen with a standard pump). Pumping the pan dry is only going to happen if the return holes in the block is clogged. (I have a clean engine an 7qt pan so...)
You really believe that moving more oil, either through the engine or through the relief valve isn't adding significant resistance to the shaft?
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It does add proportionally to the additional volume. Given HV pumps flow between 10-30% more, is that really significant? I sure would hope there is more the 1.3 safety factor built in to both the shaft and the distributor gear. Melling is very clear, in writing, that a HV pump will NOT hurt the distributor gear.
And oddly enough I never mentioned the gear....are they as clear about the shaft?
I cant believe you seem to think my recommendation is so radical that you feel the need to dispute it. Its a 20$ piece of insurance.....
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Melling provides a shaft with the HV pump. I am good with that. As an engineer I trust their engineering. You certainly are welcome to your opinion and I am equally welcome to mine.
If someone were to mess with the pump by changing or shimming the relief valve spring to change the pressure setting then I am with you that the shaft that Melling provided is probably not appropriate.
Odd that they don't think fords driveshaft is up to the 1.3 factor....
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10,722 Posts
Melling provides shafts on all their new pumps so apparently they don't trust OEM shafts for standard pumps either.
My point of even posting in this thread was to help dispel the myth that HV pumps are bad. The OP was concerned enough that he was going to replace it if it happened to be HV. That is illinformed. Is HV necessary? Probably not. Is it going to hurt anything (other than a little more horse power)? No.
Like I said, even Melling engineers agree with me. There were no "myths" until you got here.
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1,713 Posts
The drive shaft is not included with the M-68 pump.
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Really? Melling says you need to go spend $20 for cheap insurance when they provide a shaft with the pump? I missed where they confirmed that myth.
Which myth did I bring? Since when is an article from Melling a myth? (Those are both rhetorical questions)
BTW, Melling recommends the shaft be replaced with the pump. Perhaps somegthing on which we both can agree.
Oil Pumps - Melling
Melling is the leader in oil pump engineering, prototyping, and production. We specialize in several different styles of oil pumps including: Variable Displacement Oil Pumps, Vane Oil Pumps, Cast Iron Oil Pumps, Gerotor Oil Pumps, Aluminum Oil Pumps, Crescent Gear Oil Pumps, and traditional Spur...
www.melling.com
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316 Posts
I think the point was missed. I recommend the HV pump as well. I have seen a few twisted up drive shafts.
However, what is often worse is spark scatter from the shaft flexing. I run them on any FE I touch.
I have known Doug at POP for 30 years. I also use his pumps and highly recommend them.
However, what is often worse is spark scatter from the shaft flexing. I run them on any FE I touch.
I have known Doug at POP for 30 years. I also use his pumps and highly recommend them.
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