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#41 ·
Sorry, I disagree with the "it's the receiver's problem" here. If it was your money, I'm sure the tune would be very different. The shipper built a flimsy pallet and it fell apart on the way to the receiver, possibly through rough handling on the delivery companies' part. Shipper is 100% responsible for the safe delivery of goods that are paid for, not "oops, it fell down a flight of stairs, here's some stickers and an oil filter".

In the end, it'll all come down to the OP, whether he files a chargeback on his card or not for failure to deliver goods in good order. Then the shipper and delivery company can both take their respective "policies" and go pound sand.


Ronstang1966 said:
You need to disclose who you bought this engine/transmission package
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Forte's, it's right on the fuel pump blockoff plate.

Forte's Parts Connection
 
#42 ·
I think a lot of his crate engines come with a warranty. If the warranty wouldn't be denied because of that cosmetic damage and the oil filter screws on & off easily, then I'd probably keep it.
Mike is a stand-up guy with a great reputation in the Cobra world and you won't see those scuffs once it's in your car.
 
#43 ·
Yes, this can be handled two ways. Work with builder or completely replace. Part of my concern is that the builder needs to understand that all their good work goes down the drain when they don't consider how their product will be mishandled...and it will.

I had a stereo amplifier custom-made for me and it arrived damaged. The builder blamed UPS but the packing was horribly inadequate. In that case, I blame the builder for that. His previous shipments were well packaged. Any heavy item needs extra attention...it's part of being a professional.
 
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#44 ·
Hemikiller said:
Forte's, it's right on the fuel pump blockoff plate.

Forte's Parts Connection
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Sorry, missed that. Oh, a Masshole, that explains a lot!! ;) I kid, I kid.

But, this is another reason I only deal with machine shops that are local. I have parts machined and I do the assembly. I pick things up in my truck and I take the necessary care to get them home safely. There are still shops out there but you have to go to the race track to find them and then you have to be willing to wait and not expect much during race season but wait until the off season and then you can get the best work tailored to your liking.
 
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#45 ·
Highplainsdakota said:
Hey guys,

I have a situation with a Shelby cobra I’m building. I ordered a custom engine from a reputable builder, Boss block bored and stroked to 363. It was finished and shipped last week and arrived Tuesday. The crate looked good and we signed for it.

The next day we opened the crate and the brackets they made to hold the engine had failed, crushing the oil filter, a spark plug wire, damaging the side of the block and cylinder head where they mate (about 1.5” diameter area of damage on each side), the transmission had broken through the bottom of the crate. The engine was resting on the oil pan, bellhousing, external slave for the clutch, and against some twisted metal against a head bolt. There was obvious wear on the wood crate from the engine bouncing around, proving the brackets failed early in shipping.

I will try attach some photos. The builder says it’s cosmetic, he’s sorry but I should keep the engine and he will send out a new oil filter and spark plug wire, and I need to decide what would make this right. He’s a good guy and don’t want to hurt his business because stuff happens, but should I accept the risk of a potentially damaged engine?

Would any of you feel comfortable accepting this engine as is and maybe take a discount from the price or would you send the whole thing back for a new cylinder head? I’m pretty sure the damage to the block is cosmetic and won’t/can’t be fixed either way. I need some advice please!
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You know what will satisfy you,we don't. Deal with it.
 
#46 ·
Dan Babb said:
I think a lot of his crate engines come with a warranty. If the warranty wouldn't be denied because of that cosmetic damage and the oil filter screws on & off easily, then I'd probably keep it.
Mike is a stand-up guy with a great reputation in the Cobra world and you won't see those scuffs once it's in your car.
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Mike is absolutely a standup guy beyond just the Cobra world! I've know him almost forever before he even opened his first tiny shop in Waltham. I bought my first WC T5 from him in the 80's in his 2nd Waltham store. 100% he will make things right.
 
#48 ·
mustangted1966 said:
THATS all on the shiper, freight carrier will saw not packed properly
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That's the problem here and why I will never buy anything expensive that needs shipping. First it costs too much and the shipping companies are staffed by morons these days. I lost count of the destroyed packages I get on my doorstep. I was actually standing where one of these idiots couldn't see me one afternoon when they threw the box to my front door from about 20 feet. And several times I have been sitting in my office, right near the front door, and have heard packages hit the door or wall. Do you expect truck freight to be any better? Second when you do have problems if it is something expensive, like this example, the run around begins and you spend tons of time trying to be made whole by people who don't care because they have your money and don't want to take responsibility.

I don't care how much of a stand up guy that sold the engine is, it is easily apparent from the photos that the crating was woefully inadequate for an item of such bulk and weight, period.
Hemikiller said:
Sorry, I disagree with the "it's the receiver's problem" here. If it was your money, I'm sure the tune would be very different. The shipper built a flimsy pallet and it fell apart on the way to the receiver, possibly through rough handling on the delivery companies' part. Shipper is 100% responsible for the safe delivery of goods that are paid for, not "oops, it fell down a flight of stairs, here's some stickers and an oil filter".

In the end, it'll all come down to the OP, whether he files a chargeback on his card or not for failure to deliver goods in good order. Then the shipper and delivery company can both take their respective "policies" and go pound sand.
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Exactly. All the people telling him it's just a few blemishes on a $20K purchase are full of it and would be singing a different tune if it was their money, and I don't care what people say, you can see that damage once in the vehicle and assembled so that is bunk too. It is irrelevant anyway, if you pay for something you should get what you paid for and not have to "accept" damage that has nothing to do with you. To me this is all the seller's fault due to inadequate crating.

If there is anything to learn here it is that if you buy something expensive and large that needs shipping demand that the carrier let you open the crate on lift at the back of the truck. If there is any damage then you refuse to sign and accept and send them packing and call the person you ordered from for suggestions before you file the charge back on the credit card. Take lots of pictures to cover YOUR ass, but definitely get a new item or your money back.

My uncle went through this with an engine that he ordered and it was actually not what he ordered. The sellers were cagey and would not take responsibility so he did a charge back on the credit card for $6K. It went back and forth but eventually the credit card company sided with my uncle.
 
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Discussion starter · #52 ·
Woodchuck said:
In my opinion the engine builder is being more than accommodating. It's the CARRIER that should be liable for damage and a claim should be opened with them, by you.
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The carrier said the shipper/builder has to file the claim because they are the ones who actually pay the shipping and insurance, both of which were done. My builder brought up the concern that an insurance adjuster would come out and take a look and maybe decide that a few hundred dollars in damage and some cosmetic issues wouldn’t warrant the deductible on the policy.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
kenash said:
Yes, even more so since the "receiver" signed off , accepting the shipment. In a case like this, I would have had it insured. I ship around the world, in my business. It's the buyers responsibility to ask for insurance, most all buyers decline. I receive product from my Netherlands supplier and I typically decline insurance. In my 30 + years of business, I've had one claim for damages. This was against UPS International.
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Insurance was purchased for the shipping. The signing off thing always bites me because they gave me zero notice and told me they would be at my storage unit in an hour. I can’t leave work like that so I had my buddy meet him there and run my forklift to get it off the truck. That went fine and he signed for it. The outside of the cardboard wrapped crate looked fine and he didn’t open it because he wanted me to “unbox” my new engine.
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
richardsimon52 said:
If there is no support for the rear trans mount, then this damage could have occurred without the crate necessarily being dropped. That much weight hanging out unsupport would easily stress those "motor mounts" to the point of failure from normal handling during shippment.
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I think this is the issue. The tranny weight broke the welds on the mounts and things went downhill from there with expected but unfortunate rough handling. It’s on the builder in my opinion.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
Black Gold 380R said:
Here's my opinion...

If I were in that situation I would accept the engine as I do not see enough damage that warrants the engine be returned. I do not see enough damage to indicate the internals will fail because of this incident. I do not see any damage to the block where the bracket was bolted to the engine mounting bracket holes. Stuff pointed out on the transmission looks like casting marks to me, not cracks or damage. That's how my TKO 600 looks and it arrive from American Powertrain in perfect condition. The oil filter is a thin piece of flimsy metal that will crush before causing any damage to the block/oil filter threads.

The engine builder has provided his response.....He will replace the damaged parts (i.e. oil filter and plug wires). He asked what could be done to make it right. I would ask for a partial refund because there is visible "cosmetic" damage. Also, any cosmetic damage shown will not be seen once the engine and transmission are installed. So, how much of a refund depends on how much the OP paid. To be honest, I would ask for a few hundred bucks. It really isn't that bad, based on the pictures posted.

Everyone is different. Some people think this is completely unacceptable. Great, then when this happens to them they can file insurance claims and ask for a new engine and transmission to be shipped out. That's their prerogative as they spent thousands of dollars and can expect to receive a perfect delivery. That is their right.

To me, that is unnecessary. But OP it's your choice. You have several opinions here and it seems they vary. Good luck to you OP. In my opinion you will be fine either route you choose.

If you install it and have issues, just make a warranty claim through the engine builder. He's aware of your situation and seems to be willing to work with you. He's also suggesting the engine should be fine. So, discuss it with him and if you're concerned, have him send you something in writing that states he will cover it if there are problems after you install it. If he's that confident in it let him back it up writing. You could forego the refund and ask for his guarantee in writing. Something to consider.

As someone else said....I would run it...It doesn't look that bad to me...

Good luck my friend.
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Thanks for this reply. Funny enough, during this conversation with the builder I asked what my warranty is and he said he never offers one formally. He says he stands by his work with a turn key engine, dyno tested before it left the factory and will make thing right with his customers when problems come up. Kinda old schools but that’s his play. Problem is, I’m entirely relying on this handshake guarantee if anything goes wrong.

I agree with some sentiment on this forum that he should have secured this better and now I have cosmetic damage, a headache, and something to worry about in the future. If I ask him to take it back it will cost him at least $4K (new AFR head $1350, shipping x 2 $1500, crate build x 2 $500, his time and labor). I think I’m still leaning towards asking for replacement of the broken parts and an additional $1300 off to account for the damaged head which I will not replace. That’s penance for delivering me a damaged engine. I will also expect him to make things right if there are mechanical problems in the first 1000 miles which are probably very unlikely.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
W427 said:
To confirm - it is the responsibility of the receiver (buyer) to file the claim. The builder is being nice with parts offering, and is not required to do that. Give him credit for that, but don't let him file. You do that, if a filing is made. It is the shipping company with all the responsibility here. If the crate is sub-standard, that is the shipping company's problem to go after them, not yours.

Reminder - this is not an opinion situation of what to do, but specific to the contracts with each party. You have responsibilities, and I'd suggest you read-up on what they are. Many contracts require you to not sign if any damage on arrival, so yo may already have made that 'decision'. Find out. Or drop the issue and take the parts. Your only decision is whether to file for shipping damages, or not. Do your thing for what will make you happy, and let them do theirs.
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XPO was the shipping company and they told me it has to be the shipper (builder) that files because he paid for the shipping and insurance. They pay him, and he makes it right with me. That came right from XPO.
 
#58 ·
Highplainsdakota said:
XPO was the shipping company and they told me it has to be the shipper (builder) that files because he paid for the shipping and insurance. They pay him, and he makes it right with me. That came right from XPO.
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Which is a perfect storm for the builder to get a nice fat check and give you peanuts, making extra profit and laughing all the way.
 
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#59 ·
In LTL (less than truckload) shipping, the consignee, or the party receiving the shipment, is typically responsible for filing a freight claim for damaged goods. While the shipper might assist or even file the claim if the consignee is unable, the consignee's direct observation of the damage upon delivery makes them the preferred claimant.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
  • Consignee's Role:
    .
    The consignee is usually in the best position to identify and document damage at the time of delivery. They can note the damage on the delivery receipt and take photos before the driver leaves.

  • Shipper's Role:
    .
    The shipper can also file a claim, especially if the consignee is unable or unwilling to do so. However, the consignee's firsthand experience and documentation are valuable for a successful claim.

  • Freight Broker's Role:
    .
    Freight brokers arrange transportation and can play a role in facilitating claims, but they typically don't have the same liability as the carrier or consignee.

  • Carrier's Role:
    .
    The carrier is ultimately responsible for the safe transport of goods and will process the freight claim.
 
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