That looks like a pretty reasonable approach. thanks for sharing.

Brian

 

Could be just me, but the mounting brackets don't seem quite as robust as I'd like for the application.

 

And that is where my approach will differ a bit from the original one. Once I get the caliper mounts in I'll start looking around and trying different stuff. Although, F15Falcon did have a mechanical engineering friend of his run the numbers and he determined that two bolts were more than sufficient and three was way overkill. These brackets are made 5/16" steel which is damn beefy.

 

Keep us updated on your progress. I'd like to see pictures when you're finished, including details about how you centered the rotors on hub and such. Thanks!

 

Well, I have two methods in mind. One would consist of having a centering ring made. I would run the hubs and rotors down to a machine shop and have them make the rings. The second method and probably the one I will follow is this:

These rotors have three holes which are threaded in between some of the stud holes which you can see in this picture:

I got three new studs into the hubs and used acorn style lug nuts to clamp the rotor to the hub. Once I did this, the hub looked very centered on the hub. I will confirm this using a caliper or shims or something. Once it is determined that the rotor has been centered, I will use a transfer punch to mark the holes that need to be drilled on the hub. I will drill some slightly oversized holes on the hub and reassemble the hub and rotor so that is centered again. Once it has been re-centered, I will use three bolts with thread locker from the backside of the hub to keep the rotor in place. More work, but will only cost me the price of the bolts and thread locker. I'm sure pictures will help.

Fred

 

Might be a little easier to to do what OEM's do. Off the top of my head, 1980's-90's VW Rabbits, Jettas, and such for example.
Drill one hole a bit bigger and give it a chamfer. Drill and tap a matching hole in the hub. Then simply use a big chamfered phillips screw to hold the rotor to the hub. The chamfers should be matched so the screw will fit flush. Such a screw will need to be installed and removed with an impact driver.
Every such OEM implementation of this I have seen uses just one screw. But certainly three would be better.
These screws are cheap from VW but for some reason aren't widely available anywhere else. I've seen them used on Hondas, Toyotas, or something else too but can't remember exactly what.

 

I have more confidence in a hex head bolt that a phillips as far as the head not getting screwed up (no pun intended) when I go to remove it.

 

Maybe a torx type head? Could the studs have a longer shoulder to extend into the rotor and help center it?

 

A philips head lends itself more to the application because of the tapered (chamfered) bolt head. A couple million cars were made with these bolts securing the rotors and a stripping the heads is mostly a result of someone not using the correct impact driver. That said, I have seen some on other vehicles that use torx instead.
I'm thinking the easy access from the front beats fiddling around from the rear but that's just me. Incidentally I own one of the million VW's that uses these screws on the rotors. I thought it interesting that if I pull the caliper then remove the screw the rotor will literally fall off the car. With most applications that don't use a locating screw, you usually have to knock the rotor off because it fits so tightly around the hub. So I have no doubt that without a tight hub fit a locating screw/bolt (or three) is indeed the correct way to go.

 

Just a fyi... my wifes 05 Cadillac CTS has this done. 1 torx head chamfered screw that sit flush in the rotor. $4.50 a piece at the dealer.
Bill

 

"I know GM parts on a Mustang is a deadly sin." Heck, there probably made by "Bendix". You are forgiven.

 

Some cool work there...I didn't think F15's idea with the Granada rotors was unique enough to warrant all the work, but the Crown Vic rotors are a cool upgrade.

I'd forgotten about it until a month or so until I got to talking with a guy on another board about "weird" brake setups....this has been done before; a lady VMFer made her own brackets years ago for small GM calipers and 95 Vic rotors.

We did a little digging, courtesy of a Raybestos catalog and found 2 LARGER Crown Vic rotors, one of which is 100% identical in every other way to the 1995 units. A 1998 Crown Vic rotor is spec'ed at 12.42" and 1.10" nominal thickness. It would be really cool to see that crammed under a 15" or 16" wheel...heck, the thickness is up there in the same range as the 60s T-bird brakes and rotors are only $30ea and those particular GM calipers are huge and cheap

 

Gonna give those 98 Crown Vic rotors a check next time I do some work on these brakes. But then I may begin to worry about fitting 15" wheels. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Why not just use late model Ford 13" rotors and calipers, like I did on my 65 fastback?

 

I think he's trying to fit them under 15" rims, the 13" rotors require 17" min. rims. The 13" rotors are also much shallower so a deep dish wheel won't fit w/o hitting the rim either.
Jon

 

I put granada stuff on my car 20 years ago and it only cost around $100

 

Mtrain, that is a very good way to go with that set-up you've got there. I would have never though that stuff was so inexpensive at an auto parts store. I'd be interested to see how you went about mounting those calipers.

Your idea may be enough to convince me to look for a set of 17" wheel I like.

Fred

 

The mounts for the calipers were easy. Just make your first one out of something easy to cut like plywood.

This way you can drill several holes to get the clearance of the caliper to rotor where you want it.

Then when you get everything straight use the plywood model as a template onto a 1/4 piece of steel. If you don't have the tools to cut the steel go to a welding shop and have them cut it {just make sure you drill the mounting holes so you know their right}.

If you end up too far in, or out with the calipers just use some washers for shims.

Thats about it...........

 

Master Cylinder

What about changing the master cylinder? Are you making this work with the stock drum master cyl? All of the kits include that as well.

Deviousfred did you ever find a way to mount the caliper bracket?

A combination I've used on race cars a number of times is the big GM caliper, Pinto spindle, and Granada rotor. In that case there is a caliper bracket that bolts right to it. The bracket you have looks like it was originally designed to be welded to a 9" rear axle tube.

 

Fred, Like this thread a lot. Good job explaining the build. Looking forward to more from your Mustang build up.

 

I'm in between projects and a deadline presented itself for one of my other projects so this one has been put on the back burner. I will be getting some more work on it in the coming weeks. As far as a master cylinder, I'm still working on it but I do not imagine it will be more than $20-$30.

CSX, thanks, I'm working on a nifty little export/monte carlo brace that should be coming together as soon as I get some brackets back from the welding shop. Will have a complete write-up on it soon.

EDIT: BTW, if you're wondering what the other project is, it looks a little something like this.

 

That Ranger would be a good candidate for a 2.3 Turbo engine and a T5....

 

I was actually going to go with that exact combo when I got the truck but got a hold of a 5.0 and C4 so I decided to go that route. It's getting plated kingpin I-Beams, FOA coilovers, heimed radius arms, a 9" rearend with a spool, wishboned 3-link, and a full cage.

Fred

 

Got some more work in on this and closer to being finished. And no those are not the final spacers. Those are makeshift until I can find some I like. Plus there will be a third mounting point on spindle that I will build later.

 

I don't mean to put down your project but I just don't think that mounting bracket is going to be enough for all the force that's going to be applied.I know you want to do a budget build but this one area I think you should spend the money.
It's kinda like that astonaut that said to the other one" you do realize we're up here on the cheaspest govt bid don't you.

 

No offense taken but what do you base this statement on? The shear strength of the bolts being used? Or just because its doesn't look like the aftermarket kits?

 

I knew I shouldn't have said anything. I'm just concerned that 1/4 mild steel (as it looks)
is not going to withstand the forces that it will recieve when 3300 lbs or so are forced on it when trying to stop. The aftermarket one's that I'm familiar with look to be more beefy material.I think you would need something like 3/8 steel and a design that would include 4 mounting points. But what the heck do I know, i'm just going by what I see other suppliers offering. Just take care and be safe.

 

I also agree that this mounting is looking scary. There are many forces involved here, and it would take some serious calculations, to put my mind at ease. Perhaps a better design, and more robust bracket should be used? Whatever the case, I like your end goal...... except for the Chevy parts. LOL

 

Well, to be honest I shared your concerns before I began this project. I was unsure of strength of this bracket compared to the more common ones we have seen. Then I looked at some of the more popular designs and noticed they too were mounted to either 1/4" or 5/16" steel or aluminum at one point in their design. Granted the rest of the bracket was super beefy, a system is only as strong as its weakest point. Also, I'm unsure if you guys read the part where the bracket will have a third part to it that connects to a third mounting point on the spindle. Kind of like this:

I have seen designs similar to this bracket working on many cars that are driven hard with out a single problem. Time will tell.

 

The thickness of the plate is not so much of a concern as the distance the spindle mounting tabs are to the caliper mounting points and they way you are attactching the plate to the spindle. This distance on such a thin plate, but more importantly, mounted the way it is will cause the caliper to flex.

Adding that hockey stick shaped piece to the top and bottom would help but still may not be enough to increase the stifness to an acceptable level.

Those brackets are designed to be welded to a rear end axle tube. The increased length of the welded area and the reduced braking load is what makes them suitable for that application.

 

I have been installing that same bracket on the front of cars for more than 20 years now and have never had a problem, most of them were on short track circle track cars that severely abuse the brakes weekly . I have that same bracket installed on the front of my 3800 pound road racing '64 Galaxie using only two bolts instead of three with no problems. I have also installed dozens of Wilwood disc brake kits that use an aluminum bracket held on with two 3/8" bolts. Like Deviousfred mentioned, I had a friend of mine run the numbers on the bolts and the brackets, and he fudged the numbers considerably (like an 8,000 lb vehicle weight, and 40" tire diameter etc.) and the brackets were still by far adequate for the task.