I've kinda looked into this. It seems that a quality check valve needs to be installed in the line. A few pounds of boost could blow a cover. Maybe someone will chime in with accurate knowledge. I "do" plan on using something like this......
RIPP 30psi PCV
http://www.et-performance.com/kv_install.html

 

I've kinda looked into this. It seems that a quality check valve needs to be installed in the line. A few pounds of boost could blow a cover. Maybe someone will chime in with accurate knowledge. I "do" plan on using something like this......
RIPP 30psi PCV
http://www.et-performance.com/kv_install.html

I looked at the et-performance kit and wrested with it in my mind and I don't think that is a good idea. The have 2 one-way valves. The valve on the PVC side is a good idea - keeps boost from blowing through the PCV since it probably doesn't seal well. The other valve, on the intake side only allows air out of the crankcase. Thus, when there is vacuum (most of the time), the PCV will be putting vacuum on the crankcase but the one-way valve on the intake side will be closed, keeping the crankcase under vacuum. Since, as the old saying goes, nature abhors a vacuum, it will try to get air from somewhere, and the most likely place is sucking it through the ring gaps, which will contaminate the oil with combustion byproducts or wash the cylinders with fuel (neither of which is good). The factory plan of drawing filtered (and on fuel injected motor - metered) air in one side of the crankcase and drawing it out on the other (through the PCV valve) is a better idea. I do think you need a one-way valve in addition to the PCV valve if you have boost though. That's what I'm looking at.

 

Evac systems have been beat all to H...@ SBFTECH.com Experienced Small Block Ford Tech - Index. Go there, search for threads. You'll find all that you need. You "do" want to use the one-way valves. You "do" want quality valves and the NAPA brand has been recommended many times. You "do" want 45 deg angles (bungs) into the exhaust
My guess, is you want the valves downstream of the sensors, if nothing else, to not contaminate the O2 sensors.
I used a crude form by installing a closed PCV system. It reduced any tendencies toward annoying minor leaks by reducing the pressures.
Happy Motoring!

 

I tried two breathers on my n/a and it blew oil everywhere! Defintely go with a closed system, ie a pcv going to the bottom of your carb and a hose from the other v/c to the bottom of your air cleaner. The header evac system is the next step up from that. Definitely after the sensors. It can contaminate them. The best is a vacuum pump. But those are expensive.

 

I've noticed some snazzy little crankcase evacuation vacuum pumps on later VW 1.8 turbo cars. Crossed my mind if one or a pair of them would work on a turbo V8. No shortage of them in the junkyards.

 

Thats a great idea.

 

I just installed a header evac system on my 289 hipo a couple of weekends ago to see how it worked. I eliminated the pcv system. The first thing I noticed is the engine idled much better right away. It pulls a couple of psi vacuum on my 40 year old engine and reduced the rear mail seal drip. I would bet with a newly built sealed engine, it would work nicely.

Mark

 

Hey Mark,
Care to provide the details as to your setup, P/Ns etc?
Thanks!

 

Sure can Ken,
I used (2) Moroso weld in nipples part #97810 and (2) Moroso positive locking valve cover breathers part #68785. I think the positive locking breathers should seal better than the push-in type. The back flow valves are NAPA part #2-29000 and then you need about 6 ft. of 5/8" heater hose and (4) hose clamps.
Thanks,
Mark

 

Thanks Mark, I'm looking into all of this, as well. I agree, the posi-locks are much better. You bought all of the right parts for sure.
Happy Motoring!

 

I appreciate the help guys. I have purchased the parts for my kit. I wanted to stay away fromt he Moroso breathers since they wouldn't look very good on my engine plus I don't think they would fit with my EFI intake. I purchased some rubber grommets and plastic elbows to connect the 10 AN hose to. I purchased the same check valves as Mark and went to Lowes to purchase 1/2" pipe to screw the check valves on to. I am hoping to get to this project by mid July and will post some pictures and results at that time. Thanks for the help!

 

Are those VW pumps electric or belt driven?

 

Electric. Bit noisy, they whine when they run. Located on the bottom of the front of the engine by the radiator support.
Interestingly 2000 S10 Blazers (or some of them with extra pollution) have a VERY similar looking electric pump in the identical location. But the S10 version is an air pump which pushes fresh air into the EGR system. You wouldn's want to confuse the two. No doubt there are other vehicles with pressure pumps that LOOK like vacuum pumps.
Also some older F350 diesel trucks have a fairly nifty little V-belt driven vacuum pump. Don't know a lot about them but it looks to be pretty high capacity for it's size. One's stashed around in my garage. Somewhere. My old driver VW diesel also has a mechanical vacuum pump, driven by what would be the distibutor drive on a gas engine. It's pretty puny looking next to the Ford pump.

 

Mark, I just received the Moroso kit today. I got the tip from a guy on another forum that has a blown FE Mustang that he ran on the Hot Rods "drag week". Which is where the contestants have to drive the car they race from event to event.

Looking at the breathers they do look a little crude, at best, however I plan to fix mine up just a bit. Looking at your car I think you definitely have the skills to do this.

 

Mtrain,
Interested to hear what you are planning to do to fix up the breather /valve cover issue. Can you elaborate??

I was thinking I might try some 10AN bulkhead fittings and a 90 degree hose adapter to clean it up.
Thanks,
Mark

 

I was going to find some aluminum tubing that is roughly the size of the caps. Then using the tubing, trace a circle on a sheet of 1/4 aluminum that I have to make a top cover {tc}.

After I have the top cover I will buy some chrome allan head bolts to hold it to the tube. Then I will drill and tap the side of the tube for an AN type of fitting as I don't like the way the kit breathers have the outlet turned at an angle that is too far up.

Then I will cut the outlet tube of the old breather for clearance and epoxy around the bottom sides of the breather.

I don't know how this will look, it depends on getting really small allan head bolts so I can use a thinner tube.

 

People have been messing with negative crankcase pressure systems for 40 years or so that I know about and likely longer the whole idea and purpose is to "enhance" ring seal.
The nature abhors a vacuum thing doesn't work. A gasoline engine can be considered a big air pump. With compression tester, you'll generally read 100-160 psi pressure on a cylinder just cranking the engine over. I frankly don't know what the pressures are when the engine is acually firing. So all the time you've got some pretty high pressures in the cylinder trying to blow fuel mixture past the rings. So a a measly few inches of vacuum on the other side of the rings could hardly have an effect. And in any case, negative crankcase pressure has already long been dyno/track/street/factory proven to enhance ring SEALING.
Enhancing ring seal on a turbo car happens to also reduce some specific pollution emissions that would otherwise be higher than on an equivalent non-turbo car. Which is what I suspect is the actual purpose of VW's vacuum pump on their GTi's, an emission control that happens to have an additional slight performance benefit.

 

That's true. The cylinder pressures will be much higher than the vacuum.

 

I finally got around to putting the evac kit on my car this week. I know it works since I am getting some serious smoke coming from my exhaust. Oil is getting into the exhaust system and creating a smoke screen that really is easy to seem at stop lights. I did not think to much where i put the bungs since they only go as deep as the rubber grommets. How in the heck do you stop the oil from entering the exhaust? Is there some sort of baffle that can be added after the fact?

 

I am thinking about adding in baffled grommets from Mr Gasket and a Steeda oil/air seperator on both sides. There is also a seperator on ebay that catches my eye. What do you guys think?

Steeda Autosports 555-3710 - Steeda Autosports Oil Separators - Overview - SummitRacing.com
UNIVERSAL BILLET OIL CATCH CAN SEPERATOR TANK: eBay Motors (item 290460696843 end time Aug-13-10 17:09:37 PDT)
Mr. Gasket 5425 - Mr. Gasket Baffled Breather Grommets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

 

Take a look at "Junkyardturbos", there is a good diagram of a non-turbo and turbocharged PCV system.

 

I know this is late, but why did you not just vent to atmosphere (valve cover breathers)

 

After talking with my tuner today and telling him what happened he said the same thing as you DrStang. He said since I am running the blower I have way too much pulling/pushing power. All of the boosted applications they do run catch cans with breathers. I already have one but it won't fit in my engine compartment so I'll make one.

I am capping the tubes today in the exhaust and fabricating a catch can that will have a breather attached. I'll use the existing hoses coming from the valve cover and then make a horizontal can made from 3" exhaust tubing and a couple an fittings. I will be into it about $40 but will fit in the space behind my intake and in between the valve covers. I'll post some pictures when I am done.

 

Take a look......
JM Auto Racing - View our aftermarket auto parts catalog

 

Hey guys,

Looking at the various oil catch cans as a "fix" for separating oil residue from e vac air, does the evac hose connect to the single outlet and the other two inlets for the PCV hoses or valve cover hoses? (apologies for the run-on)
Thanks!

 

I'm running a slightly modified Ford setup on my 4.6. The Terminators are notorious for getting oil in the blower due to leakage past the PCV valve (as well as some blowby under boost). When the PCV leaks, it pressurizes the crankcase under boost, blowing oil out the other side into the intake tube (ahead of the throttle body).

Since I did this, I haven't seen any oil in the intake side and the car doesn't use any oil or smoke at all. I'm also running .0015" extra piston clearance and rings are gapped at .017" (for the blower) so there is plenty of room for blowby in this motor!

I put in a US Plastics one-way check valve in the PCV side. This seals off boost from the crankcase so if the PCV leaks, it won't pressurize the crankcase. Some guys use an Andair check valve for about $70 but these seem to work fine and last (according to other guys who use them) and cost about $1.50 each.

Check Valves | U.S. Plastic Corp.

I also put a JLT 'pre-filter' on the PCV side. It is supposed to catch any oil being sucked up and drain it back into the valve cover. It's about $50. Some guys (and JLT recommends - $$$) put them on both sides.

JLT PCV Pre-Filter JLT PCV Pre-Filter [PCVPF] - $47.00 : JLT PERFORMANCE, Home of the JLT TRUE COLD AIR KIT

Here's a pic of my PCV side setup (it's twisted around for the picture).

 

I am not sure if I am answering your question or not Ken but I'll give you my understanding. I am still learning (obviously) so I hope someone else chimes in. On a blown application my tuner is telling me I don't need to tie the EVAC (breather tank) into the exhaust. The pressure from the engine will relieve itself trough the breather in the tank. He also goes on to say that I don't need a PCV on the system since emissions don't come into play and just plug it off.

What do you guys think about plugging the PCV system on the car? I can see where he is coming from but I can also see where a system like Ozarks06 is using can be beneficial while not under boost. While under boost the breathers would be doing their job. Opinions?

On a N/A engine if there was a problem with sucking oil into the exhaust system I would use a small non-breather catch can on each side then connect it to the exhaust. I would think doing this to both sides would give you more suction from the exhaust to relieve crankcase pressure than using a single outlet.

 

There's been lots of talk about whether to delete the PCV system and run breathers on newer cars on other forums (like corral). The simple solution, and often used in race-only cars, is to ditch the PCV and use breathers. The problems I (and a number of posters on the other forums) see with that (emissions aside) are:

1. Your breathers probably won't filter the air coming into the crankcase well so you'll probably have more dirt in the engine. Those that do filter enough probably don't breath well enough (see point 2).

2. Without vacuum on the crankcase, the pressure generated by the rotating assembly, as well as blowby, will be forced out of the crankcase by the rotating assembly as it spins (I realize that says the same thing). The point is that the rotating assembly is losing power as it fights the wind resistance and vaporized oil. With vacuum, you reduce the pumping losses and make more power (kind of like what a windage tray does). And as GypsyR said, it also helps ring sealing.

3. The guys on corral note that vacuum also reduces ring and cylinder wear.

Unless you have a race-only car, I'd run the PCV system (or some kind of vacuum system), even if emissions don't matter. And the last thing you want to do on an EFI car is run an open breather and a PCV valve. You're bringing un-metered air into the engine and it's running leaner than your PCM thinks (though I see on cars every now and then).

 

+1 ozarks06

 

Alright I think I am suffering from too many opinions that conflict with one another. If I am understanding you correctly I SHOULD use a PCV system similiar to yours and not run any kind of catch can, especially one with a breather. If that is the case how do you relieve crankcase pressure while under boost? The check valves will stop the boost from entering the crankcase via PCV but the PCV woun't have the vacuum to draw the pressure out.

Would I be better off adding a pair of out bungs on the catch can I made last night so that I could tie them into the exhaust bungs and then put the PCV back on with a check valve?