[Martiy1971]

So, a few years ago I inherited a 1970 Mach 1 which my father in law restored in 2000. It was a modest build for 20 years ago - period correct 351w block bored .030 over with the stock stroke, so that would make it a 357ish I think. bottom end was fairly conservative with basic pistons and crank - nothing special. The top end is all Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and intake, topped off with an Edelbrock 1411 carb. 4 spd toploader and roughly 3.50 LS rear end in the factory 9". The dyno numbers I saw were 320HP at the rear. For three years I barely drove the car until this past summer. Its started to burn oil and smokes a bit on startup, acceleration and on deceleration. It burns enough that it bothers me, so I did a compression test on a lukewarm engine. all of the readings were between 128psi and 132 psi across all cylinders - a little low, but encouraging that all are that close. I don't have the equipment to do the leakdown test. Regardless, it feels like a bottom end ring issue rather than a top end thing. Which brings me to my question.........

I am seriously considering starting over with a clean slate, and going the route of a crate engine, and possibly a 5spd tranny. Aside from all of the other debates about rebuilding with a new block etc. etc. I have been weighing the options of different crate engines - not modular as I don't want to remove the shock towers. I think that there are arguments for three choices and would like to hear opinions.

1. CRATE ENGINE 363 Z-HEAD IRON BLOCK - FRONT SUMP (M-6007-Z363FT) - 302 block, 500HP and lots of revs (which I like) as a former Ferrari owner I do like an engine that likes to rev. Also, there is the the fact that since it is shorter deck I might be able to use different intakes and use a shaker assembly. possibly more room for long tube headers but not sure.

2. CRATE ENGINE 427 IRON BLOCK - FRONT SUMP (M-6007-Z427FFT) - 351w block, 535HP and more torque. More cubes. and I like the classic 427 displacement. nuff said. about 2 or 3 grand more than the 363.

3. CRATE ENGINE 460 IRON BLOCK - FRONT SUMP (M-6007-Z460FFT) - 351w block, 575Hp and more torque - Feels like a monster and is about the same price as the 427.

Which would you pick, and why?

 

[HoustonGlock]

No replacement for displacement!

No 302 block. All your brackets, intake, headers, etc. won't fit.

For the money, the 351w based 460cu in.
More torque, same money, no question.

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[Boxhead]

I am more than pleased with my Smeding crate 427.

 

[jmlay]

Might want to take an afternoon and pull a couple of plugs to see if it is burning oil on all cylinders. Then pull a cthe valve covers off and pull the valve springs and check the valve seals. The oil burning may be a simple and relatively inexpensive fix.

Mike

 

[Jmo1999]

If it smokes upon start up its probably the valve seals. so replacing engine makes it a want?

 

[CJM68GT390]

Just remember, oh former Ferrari owner, you want an over-square engine (bore larger than stroke) if you want an engine that really, really spins. The 289 is 4.00 x 2.87. Those stroked engines will give you tons of fun-producing torque but might not spin like you want. Do they advertise the rpm at which the HP and TQ are produced?
Just a gut reaction. I’ll let the SBF experts chime in on the matter.
Edit: Signed, A Guy Who Grew-Up Racing A Lotus. 8k rpm anyone?

 

[Woodchuck]

 

[stroker393]

Woody did my Cleveland. No regrets.

 

[MUSTANG65FBK]

A lot of it is going to depend on your budget. I don't know much about 302 crate motors other than they seem like they cost almost double what a 351w based crate motor costs, and especially if you're considering stroking it. Not sure if the 302 block you mentioned for the 363 stroker is a stock block but that's definitely getting close to, if not over, what a stock 302 block can handle. I'd go with a 351w based motor as it's considerably lighter than a big block 460 and when a 351w has aluminum heads, intake and so on it's actually lighter than an all cast iron 302. That's one of the many reasons why I went with a 351w with aluminum heads... that and it was several thousand dollars less to build than a 302 based motor. What's your budget and are you wanting a turnkey drop in motor or a long block? There's a company called Tristar Engines that makes a 408w stroker motor long block that has 450hp/500tq for $5,245. You can also get it in more of a turnkey option for $6,545, which comes with distributor, carburetor and so on. If 450hp/500tq isn't enough for you, you can always get their 427w long block with 560hp/540tq for $9,695 or that version in a turnkey motor for $11,095. Just depends on your budget and how much horsepower you want at the end of the day.

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[Jsams]

Go with the FRPP 460 short block with TFS 11R 205cc heads.

 

[Martiy1971]

Might want to take an afternoon and pull a couple of plugs to see if it is burning oil on all cylinders. Then pull a cthe valve covers off and pull the valve springs and check the valve seals. The oil burning may be a simple and relatively inexpensive fix.

Mike

Mike, here are some pics of the plugs. All have oil on the threads, but doesn't this just show there is blow by and not necessarily from the heads or rings?

 

[Martiy1971]

If it smokes upon start up its probably the valve seals. so replacing engine makes it a want?

Jmo1999, it smokes on startup, acceleration and deceleration. start up is the worst, followed by deceleration and acceleration in that order. worst to least. Not much at idle.

 

[Martiy1971]

Just remember, oh former Ferrari owner, you want an over-square engine (bore larger than stroke) if you want an engine that really, really spins. The 289 is 4.00 x 2.87. Those stroked engines will give you tons of fun-producing torque but might not spin like you want. Do they advertise the rpm at which the HP and TQ are produced?
Just a gut reaction. I’ll let the SBF experts chime in on the matter.
Edit: Signed, A Guy Who Grew-Up Racing A Lotus. 8k rpm anyone?

These are all Ford Racing crate engines, and if memory is correct....
The 363 is 500HP@6500RPM and 410TQ@4100RPM.
The 427 is 535HP@5600RPM and 545TQ@4500RPM
The 460 is 575HP@5500RPM and 575TQ@4700RPM

 

[Martiy1971]

I am also in Canada so my options are somewhat limited due to high shipping costs if I was to look at some of the custom builders in the US. There is one Ford dealer in Canada that looks like they have all three of these crate motors in stock at prices between $11k - $13k which is closer to what they are in USD. Most other Canadian suppliers of the same crate engines are at $18-$21k range.

I would say that I would like to keep my installed budget to $20k CAD. With such a big bump in HP, I may also need a new tranny, driveshaft and rear end

 

[jmlay]

Mike, here are some pics of the plugs. All have oil on the threads, but doesn't this just show there is blow by and not necessarily from the heads or rings?
View attachment 772934 View attachment 772934

View attachment 772935

This just indicates you have oil in the cylinders, the origin is unknown at this time. I suggested looking at the plugs to understand if there was an issue in specific cylinders. Blow by is ring seal. Could be a result of poor cylinder hone, worn rings, fuel washed cylinders etc... Pulling valve springs and checking/replacing seals would be my recommendation. Assuming also you pcv system is installed and working properly, not sucking oil in from a valve cover with poor or no baffle.

 

[Martiy1971]

To me it looks like all of the plugs have oil on the threads, and most on the tip as well, although there are a couple where it looks like the plugs were running hot enough for the tips to not be completely fouled. I have just replaced the PCV valve and hose, but haven't fired it up again yet. Just finished rebuilding the tilt column and now am working on minor steering and suspension upgrades from Opentracker Racing. Dealing with the oil issue will be the next thing on the list though.

PS - the heads do have baffles in them, and prior to making any decision on crate engines, I suppose I'll pull the heads off and get them looked at first and see where that takes me. If its the bottom end, it will be crate engine time!

 

[CJM68GT390]

With such a big bump in HP, I may also need a new tranny, driveshaft and rear end

You might want to consider adding suspension, chassis, brakes & tires (plus wheels) to that list when you're talking that kind of horsepower. But it sure will be fun!

 

[Martiy1971]

You might want to consider adding suspension, chassis, brakes & tires (plus wheels) to that list when you're talking that kind of horsepower. But it sure will be fun!

already in progress with the steering, suspension and brakes.

 

[Hemikiller]

If it smokes upon start up its probably the valve seals. so replacing engine makes it a want?

+1 to this. 20 year old build will need new valve seals. You don't need to spend $20k to fix a $20 problem.

 

[MSMach1]

I think it may be an easy fix also, but my 2 cents would be go with the 427, if you are going to replace the engine. 427 is a magical number with both Ford and GM. I am building a Dart based 427 with Trick Flow 225 hi port and 10.4:1 for my 69. T-56 Magnum and Strange 9" 35 spline axles. I am now planning on the Edelbrock ProFlo4. I suspect the drivability will be head and shoulders above a carburetor. If you go big, you may want to add some sort of frame connectors and beef up and brace things, because if you ever lay into it and hook up, you may twist that poor unibody.