It's important to understand what you're asking for, and what you'll get if you really shoot for these numbers.

This is about two things. One is streetability. A 289 cubic inch engine can realistically only produce so much torque. Horsepower is a function of torque at a given RPM; the higher the torque and RPM, the higher the horsepower. A 289 does not make much torque, due to its short stroke. So, to get 450 horsepower out of a 289 means you are going to be revving to some ungodly number - probably around 8-9k. A cam that makes good power at 8-9k RPMs is not going to be very fun to drive at low RPMs, and will probably not make very good mileage.

If you decide to go with an engine that makes lots of torque, and could be fairly mild at 450 horsepower - say a 460 Ford - then you're going to be adding a lot of weight to the nose, and compromising the ease of working on it later.

Even if you go with a 351 or stroker, and get an honest 450 horsepower, you would need to do a lot to the frame, suspension, and be very careful with your tire choices.

Which leads into the second thing: power to weight.

Most people rate a car by how much horsepower it's got. I mean, an 808 horsepower Dodge Demon is faster than a 450 horsepower Mustang, right? But the Demon weighs 4280 lbs. And 4280/808=5.29 lbs per horsepower.
If you have a Mustang that weighs only 2800 lbs, to hit that same power-to-weight ratio, you only need 529 horsepower. And keep in mind, you aren't going to have nanny-state computer-run antilock brakes and traction control. 450 horsepower in a Mustang is a pretty wild ride. The original engines in these cars typically only made about 150 RWHP. So you're talking about three times the factory power levels. To make that work, you really need to do a lot of other work to the car, just to keep it from twisting itself to pieces.
Oftentimes, a lighter car can often be faster than a heavy car even when they have identical power-to-weight ratios, so keep that in mind as well. Everything hinges on traction and the ability to put power to the ground.

Before you really tear into a project like this, think about how you actually want to drive the car. Then think about your budget. That will start to give you some realistic points from which to build.

And frankly, in these cars, a six speed would be a waste. All the transmission tunnel work and additional fuss doesn't help much. The Windsors have a nice broad torque curve, not a peaky powerband that needs help staying in a narrow window to do well. A good TKX or even a Toploader is often the better choice, offering excellent durability, shift quality, light weight, and ease of fitment.

Last but not least, think about how long you intend to keep the car. Is this a love affair for life, or more of a casual fling? If you're rich and don't mind throwing money down a hole, then just put in whatever you want for the drivetrain, and drive how you want. If it sucks, redo it till it doesn't. But if you're more interested in driving a particular way, and want a classic Mustang experience, perhaps it's better to look at what other people do who drive their car the same way, and follow some of their ideas and solutions instead of trying to apply hardware that hasn't been used in a Mustang often (or ever) because it doesn't fit without a lot of work.

And if you're serious about the 450 horsepower, don't forget seat belts and brakes!

 

It doesn't work like that...you can't build a NA engine now and just decide to go turbocharged or supercharged in the future....not in any logical manner anyway. The compression ratio on NA engines is generally too high to run more than mild boost...the camshafts for NA engines have too much overlap for boosted engines. The list goes on....if you build a boosted engine, it should be designed for that from the start. Sure...you can slap a turbo on a stock long block engine and run 10-12psi all day....but you can't do the same thing for a built NA engine and expect decent results. So decide forced induction or NA to start with...since a boosted stock longblock is not in the cards.

A 12k budget just screams a 347 stroker with AFR heads(or a 393 stoker if you want to use a 351w block) with a TKX 5 speed(6 speed transmissions with 2 overdrive gears are a gimmick unless you spend a lot of time above 150mph). If you build the engine yourself it should be more than doable.

For my money...it makes more sense to slap a turbo on a stock longblock than it does to dump 12k into a NA engine....that way you make the power you want...but if it breaks, it no big deal, just find another stock long block, its a lot cheaper than having to build it again. You can get a very nice turbo system and standalone fuel system well under the 12k budget.

 

@Grimbrand Thank for you such detailed reply.

I'm pulling out 289 and 3 speed automatic out of the car (they seen better days) and they will never get back.
Whatever I will get will be something new.

Gave a thought about what the suspension solution will be, and just to avoid any compromises I'm getting front&rear Detroit speed (they pretty straight forward solution with very detailed youtube "how to"). Meaning, I will cut wells anyway making bigger room under the hood.
I will purchase it same time with the engine so mounts and rear end will fit whatever it requires.
Probably I can order along with the front suspension stronger springs to maintain the weight.

I won't sell this car, it's guaranteed.

Do you think $12k, engine + tranny turn key solution with 460 ford + TKX would be enough?

 

I think you're going to dive into this rabbit hole headfirst and eyes closed, but it's not a place I'd want to go. I hope you like it down there when you reach your destination! lol

What you are describing is not a $12k job.

 

@wicked93gs thank you for an advice. could you tell me what would I need exactly for 1st and 2nd solutions, like list of parts or whatever?
I'm mostly "youtube" based knowledge guy and even I restored some amount of modern cars but it's probably the biggest project car I will ever did/will do. A little guidance would be great.

 

I agree with @wicked93gs. A stroked 347 would be a great choice. I would personally go with a 4 speed UNLESS you plan to spend a lot of time on the highway. A 5 or 6 speed with a good overdrive top gear would be nice for highway driving, but for cruising and an occasional trip to the strip, I think a 4 speed would be great, I see no reason why you could not do a decent 347 and a 4 speed for 12K.

 

Lmao, there's no need for a 460 to get 450 hp. A stroked windsor can get there fairly easy and no it won't twist the car in two. Run drop motor mounts and it'll give you more clearance in the tunnel.

 

my only thought about the engine, that it should have some room for further push if I will decide later on. you think stroked 351?

 

@Mustang Mike 50 4 speed feels like a compromise in a way, never rolled on less than 5 speed and due to I was planning to put 3.9 or 4.10 gear or similar, 5 speed is essential if I will ever want to roll on the highway

 

Gear choice should be dictated by the engine and transmission setup...not the other way around. The 4 speed Toploader is probably one of the best manual transmissions ever made. The only downside it has is interstate travel. Think of it differently...the more you are shifting the slower you are accelerating. For a boosted car in particular a wide ratio Toploader T4 would be the ideal choice.

If you are talking about chopping out the shock towers though....keep it simple, a LS/T56 swap(even if it does have 2 overdrive gears) would do the trick easily enough. As for chopping the tunnel...not sure why you would hesitate if already cutting the shock towers out. There are any number of engine/trans combos out there these days that make the numbers you want and can be had within your budget....the qualifier is that you would have to do the work to install them.

In short...you have a half dozen ways to get to your goal...but you are unlikely to reach that goal within budget if you don't do the work yourself. I also don't suggest building for some number in your head...that is pointles for anything other than bragging rights...I suggest having a goal in mind for the car(IE a certain 1/4 mile time, a road course lap time, etc) then running the numbers and finding out the minimum required to get there before deciding what you need to do for the engine

 

$12k would get you a coyote engine and transmission from a newer mustang/f-150. That would require a whole new front suspension setup though.

 

A 408 stroker with a TKX is the obvious solution here..

 

So we talk about something like this 408 Ford Small Block Stroker Crate Engine: F408-HR-C1
with TREMEC TKX 5-Speed TCET17805 GM 26-Spline .68 5th Gear - American Powertrain

with some extra parts around, correct?

 

I say the easiest solution, cut out the shock towers, and put in a Coyote. (Or some would say on a certain Facebook page that I got suspended from lol)

Chris

 

which gen? maybe a link or something
with tkx?
just want to find something, where I could assemble together drop it in and fire up. modern engines - the electronics, that what worries me

 

I can tell you that I went with a stroked 351W (408) and a T-56 and I've got around 5-6k in the transmission and likely equal to that in the engine. The car isn't on the road yet, but my digital dyno numbers are expected to be in the 400+hp and 500ish tq range. I didn't want to cut my towers out but will be doing lots of stiffening and have already done suspension upgrades.

 

I also was looking for older cobra/5.0 engines with trannies, it's a bit risky to buy older engine but just throw options for a discussion

 

What should you get? A second job.

 

lol it would be nice but in my case just don't want to blow money on unnecessary options and make foolish decisions, therefore I ask all of you guys because you spent long time around these cars.

 

One thing is for sure, this WILL NOT be an inexpensive build to even come close to the desired attributes listed in the first post......

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

I know. In my case,
I bought a coupe instead of fastback, then got conversion to fastback kit. So I saved about $25k.
Suspension it's not something that I would compromise with so I plan to spend 13k on the Detroit Suspension, front + rear. The whole brake system plus wheels will be custom made so it's not in the budget. 12k left for the engine + tranny. I can squeeze a bit more budget but on something that makes sense. So I thought if to get something with 450hp that has some potential + tranny it would be a great solution for me but due to the specifics of such cars (i messed only with the modern ones) I ask you guys to see if you could pin-point on "get this, this and that" pretty much

 

I guess I will continue in my Google Sheet doc

1968 Fastback Mustang Coupe to Fastback Project

docs.google.com

and will update here with the list of things.

I think what @1stLove says makes sense.

 

To get a 289/302 to the 450hp range is going to take a lot more money than your budget allows. As I think you know already, a 351W stroker is the best way for the money to get to that power level in a vintage Mustang. I run a 393W that runs somehwere in the 550hp-600hp range. It was built around 2008 and cost approximately $12k back then. The only Ford parts in my engine are the block and timing chain cover. I seriously doubt you can make 450hp out of a 289/302 for the money you want to spend. Power cost money.

For the transmission, I'm a big fan of a modern 5 speed overdrive if you're wanting to run a manual transmission. A modern overdrive transmission allows you to run an aggressive rear end ratio gear (I have 4.11 gears in my car) while being able to cruise at highway speeds with low engine rpm's. I have a TKX 5 speed in my car. It cost me $2,800 to my door earlier this year. I already had a hydraulic throwout bearing, scattershield, flywheel and clutch for my car from the TKO I had been running previously. So that saved me a couple of grand in ancillary items for the transmission. The TKX is a smaller case than its predecessor the TKO and doesn't require any modifications to fit in a 67-73 Mustang. A TKX would not need any modifications out of the box to work and last behind a 450hp engine. A TKX is rated for 600 ft-lbs of torque and 8,000 rpm. I would not use a T5 as they're not rated or designed for the power level you want.

That's just my opinion and experience. It's your money and your car. You build it the way you want. Unfortunately I don't think you can get a 450hp engine and a 5 speed transmission with a $12K budget.

 

To get a 289/302 to the 450hp range is going to take a lot more money than your budget allows. As I think you know already, a 351W stroker is the best way for the money to get to that power level in a vintage Mustang. I run a 393W that runs somehwere in the 550hp-600hp range. It was built around 2008 and cost approximately $12k back then. The only Ford parts in my engine are the block and timing chain cover. I seriously doubt you can make 450hp out of a 289/302 for the money you want to spend. Power cost money.

For the transmission, I'm a big fan of a modern 5 speed overdrive if you're wanting to run a manual transmission. A modern overdrive transmission allows you to run an aggressive rear end ratio gear (I have 4.11 gears in my car) while being able to cruise at highway speeds with low engine rpm's. I have a TKX 5 speed in my car. It cost me $2,800 to my door earlier this year. I already had a hydraulic throwout bearing, scattershield, flywheel and clutch for my car from the TKO I had been running previously. So that saved me a couple of grand in ancillary items for the transmission. The TKX is a smaller case than its predecessor the TKO and doesn't require any modifications to fit in a 67-73 Mustang. A TKX would not need any modifications out of the box to work and last behind a 450hp engine. A TKX is rated for 600 ft-lbs of torque and 8,000 rpm. I would not use a T5 as they're not rated or designed for the power level you want.

That's just my opinion and experience. It's your money and your car. You build it the way you want. Unfortunately I don't think you can get a 450hp engine and a 5 speed transmission with a $12K budget.

Thank you for a detailed reply. I'm trying to budget it but if I will need to ramp it up, well, I will.

So far, with @1stLove help we found BluePrint Engines 408CI Stroker (450hp) which is $7400.
TKX 5 speed as you mentioned $2800
subtotal $10200

I think I can't put anything from 289 to this one so, there will be need

• ac (optional),
• alternator
• water pump
• balancer
• other pulleys
• belts
• bracket
• bolts
• gas pump
• starter

I think I also will need

• Flywheel
• Flexplate
• Single disk clutch
• Hydraulic throw out bearing
• Bell housing
• Engine guard

what else?

ps there's probably cheaper solutions than this one but as long as I will list all the parts I need for this upgrade I will start to look for options.

 

Yes, but count on at least another $2000 for additional parts for the engine (intake, carb, filter, fuel lines, headers, engine mounts, water pump, ignition) and also $2000 for the transmission (clutch, clutch pedal and linkage of some kind, bell housing, drive shaft, shifter, transmission mount).

Edit, my answer was to your post #35.

 

Great. Will add to the list and look for compatible items.
The moment when I will say- okay I got everything I need in my list, then I will play with brands, builders, and so on.

 

You think you saved 25k on the conversion..... I'd wait to do the math on that when you're done.

 

I was going to say something about the “math” and then decided to be nice.
There’s a lot of leeway on what people will drive and think is acceptable. I could see close to $100k being spent on this project……. easy.
That might fit some folks definition and then others will think that’s 50 grand too much.
I come from the camp of constantly seeing customers underspend or mix components (usually because they think they know best) and then they’re surprised it doesn’t “float their boat” and they put it up for sale.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

What should I get?

Home Equity or Line-of-Credit?

 

You right. I wouldn't mind to get Visa Black lol.

 

A stroked 351 and a 5 speed is likely your best option.
I would also plan for 20% of the budget to be dedicated to "I didn't see that coming".

 

Post pics of the coupe -> fb conversion.

 

Still waiting for this one

Initially purchased on June 2nd. Called them last week, they found out that they have this one in Nevada in stock but week passed by no movement lol.
The passenger door glass+assembly didn't come yet too ut it's no biggie so, just waiting for the driver side frame kit and ready to go.

my office full of parts, need to bring them into garage but will do when all of it will be here

btw, if you are interested in conversion yourself, I put together a google sheet with part numbers

1968 Fastback Mustang Coupe to Fastback Project

docs.google.com

 

I guess it's safe to assume you've gotten the hood open at this point?

 

You right, WD did the trick. I swear it didn't feel like it's jammed so I was assuming there's something inside to pull.
I never drove anything older than 1993 and now got two old cars and have no idea what to do with them lol. At least 73 z28 is fully restored so it's no hassle but Mustang Fastback going to be my baby cute monster.

 

Fun build. Not terribly far from what I am doing. You don't need that fancy of a suspension but that will work.

 

With the power level you're looking to make with your engine, I would install subframe connectors. Back in the 1980's I had a mild low compression 351 Cleveland powered 70 fastback with an automatic that I drag raced a few times. I didn't have subframe connectors and wrinkled the roof of the car. Vintage Mustangs are unibody cars built cheaply and weren't designed to hold up to high performance drivetrains.

 

Thank you for the advice. Added to my "must do" list.

 

The only reason to set a budget is to have a viable excuse in case the wife asks. Otherwise just start spending money because it won’t stop.

A budget is as arbitrary as the 450hp number.

 

Your right lol.

Looking for options for about 3 days I think it can be achieved within 13-14 for sure, but if I will nail it in 12 that would be a great. Will see how it goes.