[stubes]

Is there any recourse that can be taken on sending a paypal deposit for a ebay car purchase?

Long story short, won a car on ebay. Seller wanted a $300 deposit and wanted paid in full within a week. i stupidly paid the deposit but refused to pay in full until i saw it.

Anyways drove 12 hours round trip today with rented tow dolly to find a car that was a big POS and was very unaccuartely described, rather than starting an altercation on site my father and i got in the truck and left. I was going to try and demand my money back but the guy looked like he didn't have two cents to rub together, and someone could have ended up getting themselves into trouble......
I ended up wasting another $200 for fuel,tolls,and trailer rental not to mention my time.

I paid the deposit with paypal via my mastercard, am i covered by my CC for purchase protection??

I filed the stupied paypal claim, seller is escalating it saying my bid was a legal contract and it was as described yadda yadda yadda. It was not.

Guy is being difficult,says this is a done deal and he is no longer communicating with me.

any opinions? This is the first time i have ever attempted to buy a car that wasn't as described, guess i have been lucky

 

[olddustyrelics]

Sounds like you've already covered the bases. Pursue the Paypal dispute as a "fraud" and not a
"misrepresmntation" and also do the same with the CC company.

 

[70Gcode]

Russ,

If the seller had stated the payment term in the ad that is what you should have followed. You should have had someone go look at the car before you bid. You are not biding on the right to go look at the car. This seem to be your fault and no body else.

 

[chatas1]

Did the same a few years back. Made a claim, and paypal found me to be correct (as well as ebay), and I never received a dime. You may be better off with the CC company..

 

[stubes]

paypal is also telling me if the claim is decided in my favor, i will only get back $200 minus a $25 processing fee of my original $300

and tony G code thanks for the kind words.
IF the vehicle had been in the same condition as descibed it would be in my back driveway.

 

[olddustyrelics]

What was the listing number of the auction?
I'd like to see this POS

 

[pprince]

You won a car and then decided you didn't want it.

I don't think that is how it works. You win the car and then you buy the car.

 

[olddustyrelics]

For those of you that are arguing that he entered into a contract to buy the car when he won the auction, here is something to consider. In simple terms, a contract is entered into by TWO people, BOTH of which agree to the terms of the proposed contract. In most contracts one party must perform their duties under the contract before the other party. That's often why a contract is required so BOTH parties are protected. The e-bay "contract" is not a uni-lateral contract that only must be performed by the buyer, the seller has to perform under the terms of the agreed contract as well.

Misrepresntation, fraud and failure of the seller to perform as stated in the contract would all be grounds for "breach of contract." Any party that has breached a contract can not by law demand that the non-breaching party uphold their end of the contract. Like if you contracted with someone to build you a home and they quit half way through it, the contractor can not demand that you fulfil your end by paying the full price for the home.

In the e-bay transaction stated above, the buyer is stating that the seller breached the contract through potential fraud and misrepresntation. Therefore he felt he was not obligated to fulfil a contract that had already been breached.

 

[pprince]

And that is why we have courts to figure out who broke the contract.

Not knowing either one I cannot say who is the one who broke this contract.

 

[olddustyrelics]

They don't need courts. They have e-bay recourse, paypal recourse and credit card recourse.

 

[ford69stang]

Right On Dusty Relics! If one party lies, contract is null. Common Sense strikes again.

 

[MarkStang]

Listen to Dusty...best bet is to contact your Credit Card Company and put a dispute on the transaction. Be sure that the seller commited fraud (that is your basis)...gross misrepresentation

 

[maloofracing]

since Ebay owns Paypal now, it is useless to even contact Paypal (or Ebay for that matter) with a dispute. I will not buy anything through Paypal that I cannot use a credit card. Go through your CC dispute options and handle it that way.

 

[therancheroguy]

Great discourse, Dusty.
You should have enough recourse via your credit card.
If you really wanted to sock it to the seller who misrepresented the car, file a small claims suit for your $200 fuel, tolls, and trailer rental.
It may or may not be worth the hassle, but sometimes ya gotta say WTF!

 

[STANG32]

ok, I will play devils advocate.
if the car was drasticly different than described in the auction you stand a chance of winning but you will need to of taken photos of the fraudulant areas. if the car had little to no description &/or you failed to ask any questions on it, you basicly loose, you had 5-7 days to asks all the questions you wanted but didn't due to whatever reason. if you jumped in @ the last moment & bid on the car & won. they consider that an impulse buy & you are up sh!ts creek w/out a paddle.
paypal's buyer protection program does not cover autombiles.

I had the opportunity to deal with the situation last year only a little different.
I auctioned a project car, 69 conv. & people asked questions all week long which I answered & posted all questions on the auction page. at the last moment a newcomer jumped in & won the auction raising the final price drasticly higher than it was earlier.

well it turned out that the guy bought the car w/out his wifes permission & when he came to pick up the car he nitpicked the car to death saying "oh the paint was done with a spray can", the windows did not line up(69 conv), the engine campartment was a mess., meanwhile all these things were clearly visable in the photos I had on the auction, I took 24 photos, ya think I was hiding somethning with 24 photos?
well bottom line was as he put it,"I cann't bring this home to my wife"
& that was the whole matter, he was afraid to bring it home to his wife.
he left without the car & when he got home sent me an email demanding his NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT back. I told him he was out of luck, he should have asked questions & have an inspection done.
he went through paypal, through ebay & every avenue he could to get his money back. at one point paypal froze my acct. due to his lies, I had to call paypal & explain the situation to them, whne they found out it was a car dispute, they unfroze my account immediatel stating paypals buyer protection does not apply to automobiles.
going through your credit card will not help because this is a3rd party situation. you have an aggreement w/paypal & your agreement is binding, your CC company will not override the agreement for this type of situation, unless paypal agrees to a refersal.paypal is a credit card company so other CC companies will not override their decision.
I hope you have luck ammunition to go at this with because without it you are sunk.

as for my story, the car went back on ebay, I did not change one thing on the description & it sold, although for less than the last time. the new owner was very happy with it & left me fantastic feedback

so good luck russ, if you have evidence ot back up your claim, I say fight it, if you do not then you are just spinning your wheels in the mud

 

[STANG32]

I almost forgot, after this situation heppend to me, I had the occaion ot be on the other side of the fence about a month later. I bid on a car, asked lots of questions regarding it & the seller andedthe auction early ot sell to the highest bidder(me)
I went to pick up the car after one very kind VMF'er went out tosee it & gave me a heads upon the description.
I sat down w/the seller & we began to talk & talk & talk some more till I ended up getting th car for slose to 3 grand less than originally agreeed to, I then felt it was worth continuing the purchase rather than go home empty handed w/11 grand in my pocket.
he did ot have to lower the price, he could have held me to my contract & it would have been very aggrevating to say the least. this way he was ont happy & I was not happy, that is what negotiations are for. to make everyone involved miserable,lol

did you try to come to an agrrement w/the seller or did you just get in the car & leave?
if you were the only bidder than you are out of luck, but if others felt there was a potential for a good deal then you can feel good that there could be another home for the car other than yours.

 

[stubes]

there was someone who kept bidding on the car, and i have a strong hunch it was the guys kid using another ebay user name.

Before i bid, i called and spoke with the guy for more info etc. i didn't just blind bid and show up expecting one thing and saw another....

For instance listing said T tops were in "excellent condition" The one side i looked at had gouges in the glass and the tab to hold it onto the body was broken and you could flap the top around. basically it would have been a missle if i took the car down the highway....

Doors were solid...per ad--- Drivers door had the inetrior bracking cut out of it for some reason.
the passenger side had holes in the bottom of it.

There is no way in hell someone of sound mind would bid on a car when its descibed one way,show up to get it and see a totally different misrepresented car and still be obligated to follow through.


The sellers stance is you bid on it its yours, even though it is totally different condition wise from how it was listing, and believe me i am not nitpicking here either.

I wouldn't have wasted an entire saturday not to mention fuel,mileage on my truck, and tolls. I think i am just going to call the CC company. If that doesn't work, I work in law enforcement and will speak to one of our assistant DA's tomorrow for advice and see if i can contact the agency in mich where this occured. I figure its worth a shot.

 

[Lemondrop]

I returned a car I bought through paypal to the seller . My Credit Card company had me return it and then debited Paypal for the $2800 .
The car was sold as a good 1994 GT but once I got it home and went to replace the broken rear seat belt (so my kids could ride in the car) , I found the car had been cut in half and welded to another . The roof , rear quarters , and trunk(including floor) were from a different 1994 GT (found the VIN sticker to the donor car) .
I bought a complete 1994 , not half a 1994 . The car should have had a salvage title / rebuilt/ who knows if Florida would have let it on the road .
If I did the proper thing and reported it to Florida , Id likely get a car that they wanted off the road or a car with a branded title , worth one third of the price I paid .

I tried disputing through paypal , even called and was told to dispute it because the car was not as described . Once I did , paypal kicked it back as saying "too bad you have it and we only cover non-delivery" , guess they consider delivery of 1/2 of what you paid for delivered ?

My credit card company told me to return the car to the seller and they would give the $$ back to me .
I had a sheriff officer follow me and witness the delivery of the 2 mustangs (in one box) back to the guy .
My CC company debited Paypal for the $2800 , Paypal emailed me asking for me to cancel the dispute , I ignored paypal and got my $2800 back .

Paypal has no right to withhold a dime , a deposit shows good faith . If the seller did not represent the car in a truthful manner , all is null and void .
My seller installed the exhaust system and the springs under the car . Once I jacked the car up at home I could tell where it had been joined together .
Should I have done a better inspection and not trusted the guy ? Yes but he also LIED , in email stating "It's never been in a wreck as far as I know" . The guy is a mechanic for a living , he knows cars as well as I do . Any mechanic could figure it out .
I imgine he found out the car was halfed when he installed the exhaust or springs , his wife found out and refused to have thier kids in the car . I also imagine she also refused to take a beating on it and told him to sell it and be quiet about it's condition .

My credit card company saved me , Paypal Im sure got thier money back from the seller so I care less .
If paypal had not been looking at securing thier $$ they made on the transaction and simply reversed the charges , I would never have contacted my CC company .

Just call your CC company and file a dispute . Paypal is useless because they want to keep the % they take and giving you money back = losing that % .

There is a huge difference between a tire kicker and someone who wants to buy but is lied to .

 

[olddustyrelics]

Another good point is that the car in question was not delivered or accepted by the buyer becuase of the misrepresentations. Therefore, the buyer would not have a right to any payment. On that basis the e-bay buyer would have a right to a refund. In all of the disputes I've seen, if there has been delivery paypal will pay the buyer. GT_Scode just won a dispute for faulty merchandise and he returned it for a full refund. Bottom line is that if the buyer does not have the car and the seller still does the $$ should go back to the buyer.