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Is It Leaky Valve Guides or Piston Rings?

11K views 9 replies 9 participants last post by  Art  
#1 ·
I finally got my car running fairly well, thanks to an abundance of help from the VMF!

Here's a little background that may help diagnose my problem:

It turns out that my tranny engagement issue and vacuum advance problems all stemmed from the same thing. I had valvetrain problems (proberly diagnosed by hemikiller). The intake valve on the #1 cylinder was not closing all the way and both valves on the #3 cylinder were not closing all the way, so there was zero/zippo compression on those two cylinders.

I must have some sort of hybrid valvetrain (probably positive stop studs w/ adustable rockers or something). I originally adjusted them like positive stop, but have now adjusted them like you would do adjustable rockers. This yelded compression in all cylinders.

Here's what I now have:

Cyl #1: 170 lbs
Cyl #2: 160 lbs
Cyl #3: 155 lbs
Cyl #4: 160 lbs
Cyl #5: 160 lbs
Cyl #6: 170 lbs
Cyl #7: 160 lbs
Cyl #8: 155 lbs

I hooked the vacuum up and got 20 lbs of vacuum at the manifold and had to turn the idle way down to get to 800 rpm. The timing advance issue (timing would stay advanced after revving the engine) went away and it now returns to normal. The tranny now engages perfectly and doesn't pull too hard.

Now to my problem. The car is burning oil. I pulled all of the plugs, and all but the one from the #1 cylinder look beautiful. The one from the #1 cylinder is completely black, yuck!

Do you think that the open intake valve problem on the #1 cylinder could have burnt the valve stem guide or something, and now is leaking oil into the cylinder, or do you think it's a problem with rings? Is there a way to test the problem?

Thanks agiain,
Glenn
 
#2 ·
Your compression looks good. In fact, above what could be expected, so your compression rings are holding just fine. If you are burning oil, then the oil rings are worn. Oil is cheap though (for right now) so if you have the cash to get the short block overhauled, that is what I would do. If not, check the oil often and keep her topped off.
 
#4 ·
My feeling is that you have worn valve guide(s). As you see, #1 also has slightly higher compression. I'd say this is a side effect of the cylinder getting oiled. As a crutch, you could try installing new valve guide seals. I'm not sure what the milage is but most likely the old seals are long gone and worn guides.

You could also have a broken ring too but it's easier to install new valve guide seals first.
 
#5 ·
When you say the plug is black, do you mean wet with oil or black and dry? If its black and dry, it sound like its not firing, or the plug is dead. Is the car smoking and when, acceleration/deceleration? You shouldn't cause any problems with the valve guide because of the valve being misadjusted.
I'd stick a new plug in it and fire it up to see how it runs. The compression looks ok.
Jerry
My web page
 
#6 ·
More info and response to some previous posts:

I can't recall if the plug looked wet, or dull, but I do recall seeing a thin line of bare metal across the tip of the metal surface in the center (sorry, don't know what that's called) where I presumed it had been firing.

The car smokes out of the passenger tailpipe w/ blue smoke when idling and when revved up, but more so when idling and first revved.

The block is a '97 roller block w/ less than 1000 miles on it. I got it from a guy who was running low comression pistons for a supercharger but decided to upgrade to a 351W and sold me the bare block and original pistons cheap.

I installed new rings and original pistons and bolted on some freebie stock 1970 302 heads (no work done to them) taken from a running engine (guy can't remember if it smoked or not) before he upgraded to AFR's.

Can valveseats be done as a "do-it-yourself" project, or do I need to pull the heads and take it to a shop to do?
 
#7 ·
there are 2 kinds of black one sooty and one glossy if sooty look at carb running to rich and black smoke if glossy look at an oil problem blueish looking smoke if it is oil smoke then do what the others have suggested. ::
 
#8 ·
Oil burning on accel after periods of high intake manifold vacuum like idling at a stoplight usually indicates worn valve guides. Oil burning on any accel usually points to worn rings. Do the compression test again; all plugs out, cranking engine to get highest reading, then as mentioned above squirt in a little oil and see if the readings increase substantially. Also, check out your PCV system. A clogged PCV valve, hose, port, or breather can cause you to burn oil by pressurizing the crankcase.
 
#9 ·
Based on your published compression readings I can't imagine your compression increasing substantially. Leaky valve guides will frequently cause a cloud of blue smoke at start-up as the engine burns off the oil that has leaked down from the rocker gallery while sitting. You should probably consider replacing the plugs and checking them again in a few thousand miles. Note color and condition by cylinder.