[289vert]

I don't think we're gunna hear from the OP again, he didn't hear what he wanted to hear.
Its a shame he alienated his mechanic ... he could have possibly been an expert witness against Blueprint.
For future users searching for Blueprint .... find someone else.

 

[craig3x]

Actually, you seem to have an understanding problem. I will break this down as simply as possible once again...

1. I supplied and engine and transmission to be installed in my car. After the swap, mechanic said there was a bad vibration, but drove my car anyway to the dyno. a professional should NOT do that, as it could cause serious damage to engine bearings.
2. Mechanic called Blueprint to ask them what they would like him to do to try and resolve the vibration. Blueprint told him to swap out the harmonic balancer AND flexplate to eliminate those as possibilities.
3. Mechanic swapped out harmonic balancer, but only verified part number of flexplate. Did not swap out as instructed.
4. Mechanic then took engine out and sent it back to Blueprint who claims it was a bad flexplate. (Had mechanic swapped it out, this could have been problem solved instead of taking engine out and sending it back)
5. Mechanic now wants $1500 for work. Part of the $1500 is the time he spent diagnosing. I am more than happy to pay for that time, but not the removal and reinstall of the engine which was not necessary.

I was/am suspect of Blueprints claim of a bad flexplate as well, which is why I had them ship it back to me. One they send the engine back with a verified good flexplate, I will take both flexplates to a machine shop and have them compared to one another, which at that point I will find out if Blueprint was telling the truth or not. If the flexplates are within close tolerances of each other, then Blueprint should be responsible for everything, as their warranty states since that would mean the vibration was in the engine all along. If the flexplate was in fact bad, and my mechanic did not swap it out as told so by Blueprint during the diagnostic phase, then why should I be liable for all the work of removal and install of the engine? I should only be liable for the time of the diagnostic.

and for those who make assumptions about me @289vert and @Grabber Blu :
1. I am not a professional mechanic. No, I have not alienated my mechanic. I haven't even discussed this with him yet. There is no point until I get the engine back and can verify the truth for myself. @Grabber Blu, you were a mechanic for 47 years and have never heard of parts not being correct even though they had the right part number? Ever hear the phrase "Start with simple first"? If a car doesn't crank, you don't automatically assume the starter is bad. You start by checking the battery cables first, then go from there. In this case, the simple thing was to swap the flexplate out as instructed. As I said, I was/am more than willing to pay for the diagnostic time.

 

[gregb]

Yes you start with the simple. A known good engine with no vibration goes into a different vehicle. Why on earth would you or anyone else suspect anything other than the driveshaft or something in the rear of the new vehicle as the cause if nothing in the engine or trans was changed? At that point that’s all I would suspect and driving it would not be a concern. Again, how was that first drive in the ranger? The whole thing. Around the block at all speeds? Just some quick revs in the driveway? Any steady state at the vibration RPM?

 

[Turnall]

5. Mechanic now wants $1500 for work. Part of the $1500 is the time he spent diagnosing. I am more than happy to pay for that time, but not the removal and reinstall of the engine which was not necessary.

I should only be liable for the time of the diagnostic.

How much of the $1500 is for diagnostics?

Allen

 

[MUSTANG65FBK]

Actually, you seem to have an understanding problem. I will break this down as simply as possible once again...

1. I supplied and engine and transmission to be installed in my car. After the swap, mechanic said there was a bad vibration, but drove my car anyway to the dyno. a professional should NOT do that, as it could cause serious damage to engine bearings.
2. Mechanic called Blueprint to ask them what they would like him to do to try and resolve the vibration. Blueprint told him to swap out the harmonic balancer AND flexplate to eliminate those as possibilities.
3. Mechanic swapped out harmonic balancer, but only verified part number of flexplate. Did not swap out as instructed.
4. Mechanic then took engine out and sent it back to Blueprint who claims it was a bad flexplate. (Had mechanic swapped it out, this could have been problem solved instead of taking engine out and sending it back)
5. Mechanic now wants $1500 for work. Part of the $1500 is the time he spent diagnosing. I am more than happy to pay for that time, but not the removal and reinstall of the engine which was not necessary.

I was/am suspect of Blueprints claim of a bad flexplate as well, which is why I had them ship it back to me. One they send the engine back with a verified good flexplate, I will take both flexplates to a machine shop and have them compared to one another, which at that point I will find out if Blueprint was telling the truth or not. If the flexplates are within close tolerances of each other, then Blueprint should be responsible for everything, as their warranty states since that would mean the vibration was in the engine all along. If the flexplate was in fact bad, and my mechanic did not swap it out as told so by Blueprint during the diagnostic phase, then why should I be liable for all the work of removal and install of the engine? I should only be liable for the time of the diagnostic.

and for those who make assumptions about me @289vert and @Grabber Blu :
1. I am not a professional mechanic. No, I have not alienated my mechanic. I haven't even discussed this with him yet. There is no point until I get the engine back and can verify the truth for myself. @Grabber Blu, you were a mechanic for 47 years and have never heard of parts not being correct even though they had the right part number? Ever hear the phrase "Start with simple first"? If a car doesn't crank, you don't automatically assume the starter is bad. You start by checking the battery cables first, then go from there. In this case, the simple thing was to swap the flexplate out as instructed. As I said, I was/am more than willing to pay for the diagnostic time.

I have a few questions and then this will be the last response I have for this post, even though I'm dying to know the outcome....

1. What is the condition of the car you provided to the mechanic? Did you ever drive in it before now?
- My thinking is the vibration most likely had to do with the car and it not being aligned or something was loose. I don't really see any negligence on the mechanics part, especially since you said the engine ran just fine in your buddy's pickup or whatever it was in before.
2. How many times did the mechanic take the engine in and out of the car? Was there an engine in the car that you provided to the mechanic or was the engine already out and you just needed him to put the engine you supplied in the vehicle that you supplied? Is the $1500 bill including everything? AKA is he going to charge you more to reinstall the engine when you get it back or is that included in the $1500?
- My thinking is that if you had the mechanic put the engine in your car, had the bad vibration and the mechanic then had to pull the engine again and now he will have to reinstall it when it arrives again? I don't see how that could be more than a couple hundred dollars out of the $1500 bill. If he's wanting to charge you $1500 for services up to this point without including the cost that it will be to put the engine back in the car then that price is a little on the high side but essentially installing an engine twice, removing it once and dynoing the engine for $1500? I'd say that's quite a good deal having someone do all the work for you. And as I stated before, let's say the mechanic didn't pull the engine and did what Blueprint told him and just done the flex plate instead. I really don't think you'd have saved much money, maybe $200-300, if the mechanic had gone this route. I mean we're not talking thousands and thousands of dollars here.
3. Does the mechanic have an engine dyno or does someone else in the area?
- My thinking is that you get the engine back and spending a couple hundred dollars getting the engine dyno'd on an engine dyno. This should rule out the bad vibration in the engine, if there ever was one. If it runs good and strong on the engine dyno and then the mechanic puts the engine back in the car and you still have the bad vibration, well then you've ruled out the engine as the problem and the vibration is in the suspension or elsewhere in your vehicle.

 

[MUSTANG65FBK]

How much of the $1500 is for diagnostics?

Allen

I agree and have asked this a few times. Talk to the mechanic and get an itemized bill or invoice that's showing what charges are for what.

 

[craig3x]

The original bill for the engine swap and all the other work he did has been settled and paid. (I've spent over $12k on it) I was ready to pick up my car and drive it home. When I got to the shop, he points out the weird vibration. I said I want this fixed before I take the car. This extra $1500 is for the vibration issue alone. 6 hours of the $1500 is for diagnostic...BEFORE pulling the engine and sending it back to Blueprint. He charges $90/hr, so that's roughly $540 which I am happy to pay because the engine vibration "apparently" was pre-existing. I'm done arguing whether the vibration was there before in the Ranger or not. I did not drive the Ranger around since it was set up as a dragster and not street legal. I didn't think that vibration was there during the quick test drive, but could've been wrong. Everything was solid mounted in the Ranger anyway, so some vibration was going to occur anyhow. I bought the Ranger for it's new engine and transmission only, to have swapped into my Mustang. It was only in my possession for about a week before I brought it to the mechanic for the swap. That point is moot anyway. The issue is that the vibration supposedly would have been fixed through the 6 hours of diagnostic time if he would have just swapped out the flexplate as instructed. I would have gladly paid for that time and been on my way.
It may turn out that the flex plate wasn't bad after all and the vibration was in the engine all along and Blueprint is lying. I will have the "bad" flexplate checked out and if they lied about that then Blueprint's warranty should cover the whole thing. That is their warrant policy. But I feel that is a fight that will be very hard to win. Just have to wait and see what the culprit really was.

 

[craig3x]

I don't really see any negligence on the mechanics part, especially since you said the engine ran just fine in your buddy's pickup or whatever it was in before.

I'm not blaming my mechanic for causing the vibration. I'm just saying he skipped the simple step of swapping out the flex plate as instructed by Blueprint during the 6 hours of diagnostic, and went straight to pulling the engine and sending it off. Had he swapped the flexplate and the vibration was still there, we could have 100% blamed Blueprint for a bad engine and they would HAVE to pay for everything per their warranty policy.

 

[Turnall]

It may turn out that the flex plate wasn't bad after all and the vibration was in the engine all along and Blueprint is lying. I will have the "bad" flexplate checked out and if they lied about that then Blueprint's warranty should cover the whole thing. That is their warrant policy. But I feel that is a fight that will be very hard to win. Just have to wait and see what the culprit really was.

Do you have a time frame when you will have the engine and flex plate back from Blueprint?

Allen

 

[MUSTANG65FBK]

It may turn out that the flex plate wasn't bad after all and the vibration was in the engine all along and Blueprint is lying. I will have the "bad" flexplate checked out and if they lied about that then Blueprint's warranty should cover the whole thing. That is their warrant policy. But I feel that is a fight that will be very hard to win. Just have to wait and see what the culprit really was.

I don't think it was the flex plate either. Even if it was slightly off, I'm guessing it was something internally in the engine. How long have they had the engine and when will you be getting it back? A big indicator of something internal or seriously wrong with the engine would be the turn around time for getting the engine back. If it takes several weeks to a month or more to get it back, they're probably fixing things internally. If you get it back really quickly it's more than likely just the flex plate or something simple, although I still don't think it is. Lot's of bad reviews on Blueprint engines out there.

 

[Grabber Blu]

"Start with the simple first", he did and the trans rr is not simple. If you have headers one or both headers would need to removed
He verified the correct part and as far a the correct part being bad.... The flexplex is a hunk of metal, no moving parts and if showed no signs of damage or missing weight it is not the problem. Also 2.5 oz off is not your problem, somebody's blowing smoke up your a$$.

It wasn't bad when you bought the engine, so you say. I think there's a reason why the previous owner took you for a 105 mph ride, he scared the hell out of you, so you wouldn't notice there was a vibration.

You stated you noticed no vibration when you took it on and off the trailer to the exhaust shop. That it only showed up after the dyno. A flex plate is not good one day bad the next without being physically damaged.



It seems like your disputing the difference between a trans rr and engine rr which is not much in the grand scheme of diagnosing a problem.

I see you posted while I was replying... Him changing the flexplate that was 2.5 oz wouldn't fix it so then you would contest the trans rr because it didn't fix the problem? I still feel he was spending your money in most prudent fashion based on inspection

 

[craig3x]

Yes you start with the simple. A known good engine with no vibration goes into a different vehicle. Why on earth would you or anyone else suspect anything other than the driveshaft or something in the rear of the new vehicle as the cause if nothing in the engine or trans was changed? At that point that’s all I would suspect and driving it would not be a concern. Again, how was that first drive in the ranger? The whole thing. Around the block at all speeds? Just some quick revs in the driveway? Any steady state at the vibration RPM?

I did not drive the Ranger after the quick test drive. It was a dragster with open headers and not street legal, especially in my quiet neighborhood. My mechanic said he never drove the Ranger either. When I dropped it off (towed it there), he just pulled it in his shop and tore everything out. Whether the vibration was or wasn't there prior is irrelevant. I paid him to fix the vibration and he took the longer, more expensive route.

If your headlight was out and it turned out to be just the bulb, should you have to pay your mechanic who removed and replaced the entire light assembly and charged you for that time when it wasn't necessary?

 

[Turnall]

I'm not blaming my mechanic for causing the vibration. I'm just saying he skipped the simple step of swapping out the flex plate as instructed by Blueprint during the 6 hours of diagnostic, and went straight to pulling the engine and sending it off. Had he swapped the flexplate and the vibration was still there, we could have 100% blamed Blueprint for a bad engine and they would HAVE to pay for everything per their warranty policy.

I'm not condoning lying but how would Blueprint no if the flex plate had been changed or not?

Allen

 

[MUSTANG65FBK]

"Start with the simple first", he did and the trans rr is not simple. If you have headers one or both headers would need to removed
He verified the correct part and as far a the correct part being bad.... The flexplex is a hunk of metal, no moving parts and if showed no signs of damage or missing weight it is not the problem. Also 2.5 oz off is not your problem, somebody's blowing smoke up your a$$.

It wasn't bad when you bought the engine, so you say. I think there's a reason why the previous owner took you for a 105 mph ride, he scared the hell out of you, so you wouldn't notice there was a vibration.

You stated you noticed no vibration when you took it on and off the trailer to the exhaust shop. That it only showed up after the dyno. A flex plate is not good one day bad the next without being physically damaged.



It seems like your disputing the difference between a trans rr and engine rr which is not much in the grand scheme of diagnosing a problem.

I see you posted while I was replying... Him changing the flexplate that was 2.5 oz wouldn't fix it so then you would contest the trans rr because it didn't fix the problem? I still feel he was spending your money in most prudent fashion based on inspection

Agreed. There was probably a very good reason as to why he was selling the engine. Engines in drag racing vehicles aren't typically good for much in terms of longevity.

 

[craig3x]

@Grabber Blu you're a mechanic, on the phone with an engine builder who is giving you instructions to diagnose a problem. They tell you to SWAP out the harmonic balancer AND flexplate. You swap the balancer, but instead of swapping out the flexplate, you just verify the part number and turn out to be wrong. That isn't your bad? Please explain.

 

[sixseven]

Your fault or more precisely, not his fault. You gave him a prescriptive specification; change motor. Had you given him a performance spec, he would have been responsible for the performance of the engine. However, he would have charged you more for a performance specification as he would have built in time to evaluate and test all the parts.

In this case you seem to have got off lucky and cheap. $1500 is roughly 2 to 3 days work. On a performance based effort he could have estimated a week or two in effort to see the condition of that engine before he even put it in your car.

 

[gregb]

Ok. Bottom line vibration was there all along. Now if I was doing the work per Blueprint, I would have got to the part where they said change the flywheel. Sure maybe it’s the wrong one. You get the trans out call blueprint and ask “what flywheel is supposed to be on this thing?” befire ordering somethng else. They give XXXX part number. At that point I’m done messing with it, this is going to blueprint because from what I see the correct part is there. Would you have done otherwise? Have you ever worked in a shop to have a feel of how it goes down?

 

[craig3x]

I'm not condoning lying but how would Blueprint no if the flex plate had been changed or not?

Allen

Because according to Blueprint, the flexplate was the problem and the issue would have been solved by swapping it with a known good one, eliminating the need to send the engine back to them. This is why I wish my mechanic would have just done what they said. If he swapped the harmonic balance AND the flexplate, it would have eliminated everything that Bueprint asked for and proved the engine was/is the actual problem. When you skip steps you're told to do, then there's no leg to stand on anymore.

 

[craig3x]

Ok. Bottom line vibration was there all along. Now if I was doing the work per Blueprint, I would have got to the part where they said change the flywheel. Sure maybe it’s the wrong one. You get the trans out call blueprint and ask “what flywheel is supposed to be on this thing?” befire ordering somethng else. They give XXXX part number. At that point I’m done messing with it, this is going to blueprint because from what I see the correct part is there. Would you have done otherwise? Have you ever worked in a shop to have a feel of how it goes down?

When you're told to SWAP out a part, you do it. As said before, part numbers have been known to not match the actual parts. I'm the one paying for these parts anyway. The flexplate was only $120. I had already paid for a harmonic balancer which wasn't the problem, and that was $230.

It's amazing to me that so many of you are excusing the mechanic who did not follow instructions.

 

[craig3x]

Your fault or more precisely, not his fault. You gave him a prescriptive specification; change motor. Had you given him a performance spec, he would have been responsible for the performance of the engine. However, he would have charged you more for a performance specification as he would have built in time to evaluate and test all the parts.

In this case you seem to have got off lucky and cheap. $1500 is roughly 2 to 3 days work. On a performance based effort he could have estimated a week or two in effort to see the condition of that engine before he even put it in your car.

I can understand why you're too lazy to go back and read every post of this long thread for all the details, but you are wrong. I did not just pay him for a simple engine swap. In our negotiation was that he would dyno the car and adjust everything to make it run as efficiently as possible. In fact, I'm over $12k into all the work he did. Once the vibration was noticed, a NEW work order was created specifically to deal with the vibration. It ended up costing me $1500, when it should have been solved during the 6 hour ($540) of instructed diagnostic in which he skipped an important step. I should be paying $540...not $1500