[Varilux]

I'm currently in a situation where I have 5 lug rear wheels (after swapping out the 7.25" rear for an 8"), and 4 lug front wheels (original six cyl drums).

I don't really ever plan to swap to an 8 cyl, and I've gotten to a point where I'm really quite happy with my drums. After mulling over all the various disc swaps, it occurs to me that it would be so simple to get 5 lugs if someone produced a 5 lug drum brake hub for the 6 cyl (and it doesn't seem like it would take all that much engineering to do). Are there really that few 6 cyl early Mustangs out there at this point (other than Classic Inlines, no one seems to make ANYTHING for 6 cyl Stangs)?

I'm assuming the 8 cyl brake hub will be too big for my 6 cylinder spindles, but was there any other Ford product that had the Mustang's 6 cylinder spindles AND a 5 lug brake hub?

Just curious... I have found a vendor who carries a disc brake swap that would give 5 lugs on my current 6 cylinder spindles (Superior Mustang Parts). If I end up having to go with discs to get 5 lugs, this will probably be the way I go.

 

[jevchance]

I would think the market would be very small for people who want to run a 5 lug hub on a 6 cylinder. If you found someone to do it, it would probably be incredibly expensive.

What you've essentially done is upgraded the rear to a V-8 setup, and not upgraded the front. Not a lot of people would make that choice.

 

[a228380]

my 69 came from the factory with 5 lug and a 6cylinder so they are available.

 

[mustang656man]

they make an adapter that bolts on the 4 lug drum lugs and has 5 lugs to use ur w 5 lug wheels. wes

 

[slim]

It would be interesting to find out why 4 lugs were used on the I6, then later I4s and V6 and small V8s.

Going back to 4cyl Model As, the 4 and V8 32s they were always 5 lug. Standard answer for the Mustangs, 60s small cars and up is Ford didn't spend a dime that wasn't needed.
IMO there's another element in product marketing. Perceived value. The V8 needed to be seen as an all around better value.

Snicker like Biden, laugh at me. In the fortys Ford introduced an inline 6 as a companion to the V8. To compete with Chev and others. Problem was it was soon known that the 6 actually had as much power as the V8 and cost less! Oops! For a while Ford was selling V8 cars on reputation, the 6 had equal performance and was more reliable!!

 

[09Frank65]

If you really wanted to stay with the drum brakes on the front, you could always upgrade to the larger 8 cylinder brake setup and that would get you the 5 lug drums. Without looking it up, I'm guessing the spindles, tie rods, center link and idler are all different as well, but I have a complete set of brakes that are yours for the shipping costs.

In the end you'd probably end up spending as much as if you went for the CSRP disc setup, even with the free brakes.

Otherwise, I think you're stuck with the 4 lug fronts.

 

[22GT]

my 69 came from the factory with 5 lug and a 6cylinder so they are available.

You are wrong. The 69-73 L code six cylinder had the same 10" brakes and rear axle as the 302 V8. He has a 65, which had tiny spindles, nothing like yours.

There was no Ford product with 9" brake 5-bolt wheels that could be used on a 65.

There is no need to change to 5-bolt to put disc brakes on a six cylinder.

 

[Varilux]

There was no Ford product with 9" brake 5-bolt wheels that could be used on a 65.
Not the answer I was hoping for- but the info I was seeking nonetheless... thanks!

There is no need to change to 5-bolt to put disc brakes on a six cylinder.
Swapping to discs isn't the objective- I'm just trying to get the same number of lugs for all my rims. I'd like to do the Power Tour next year (as well as one of the 50th anniversary events in 2014) and would like to be able to carry a spare that will fit on all four corners.

If you really wanted to stay with the drum brakes on the front, you could always upgrade to the larger 8 cylinder brake setup and that would get you the 5 lug drums.
As you guessed, that would involve swapping spindles- and if I'm going to do that I would just go with a disc set-up. I have nothing against discs, I just figured if someone made a 5 lug brake hub that would fit the 6 cyl spindles, it would be much simpler to get 5 lugs all around. I was hoping maybe Ford produced another model that had 5 lugs on the small spindle, but I guess not.

What you've essentially done is upgraded the rear to a V-8 setup, and not upgraded the front. Not a lot of people would make that choice.
The market made that choice for me actually... When a 7.25" rear end goes out, there really aren't parts out there to rebuild it- and the 8" is an easy swap. Considering how many 6cyls Ford produced in '65-66, its amazing how little has been done to support that side of the hobby.

 

[09Frank65]

I will say this - I drove the car for 7-8 years with the front drums and never really had an issue with them. As long as they were properly maintained they had pretty good stopping power.

Or so I thought until I swapped to the disc brakes...what a difference.

 

[22GT]

The market made that choice for me actually... When a 7.25" rear end goes out, there really aren't parts out there to rebuild it- and the 8" is an easy swap. Considering how many 6cyls Ford produced in '65-66, its amazing how little has been done to support that side of the hobby.

Well, the seals and bearings are available, but AFAIK none of the gears are. Typically, the solution is to buy an intact used axle assembly. That would get you back to four matching wheels.

 

[LynnBob 65 Mustang]

my 69 came from the factory with 5 lug and a 6cylinder so they are available.

Not for his car... Yours won't fit his.
Lynn

 

[awhtx]

I'm currently in a situation where I have 5 lug rear wheels (after swapping out the 7.25" rear for an 8"), and 4 lug front wheels (original six cyl drums).

I don't really ever plan to swap to an 8 cyl, and I've gotten to a point where I'm really quite happy with my drums. After mulling over all the various disc swaps, it occurs to me that it would be so simple to get 5 lugs if someone produced a 5 lug drum brake hub for the 6 cyl (and it doesn't seem like it would take all that much engineering to do). Are there really that few 6 cyl early Mustangs out there at this point (other than Classic Inlines, no one seems to make ANYTHING for 6 cyl Stangs)?

I'm assuming the 8 cyl brake hub will be too big for my 6 cylinder spindles, but was there any other Ford product that had the Mustang's 6 cylinder spindles AND a 5 lug brake hub?

Just curious... I have found a vendor who carries a disc brake swap that would give 5 lugs on my current 6 cylinder spindles (Superior Mustang Parts). If I end up having to go with discs to get 5 lugs, this will probably be the way I go.

Do you want to go back to the 4 lug, 6 cylinder rear axle? I have one in Lampasas,TX. I'll trade it for your 5 lug 8".

 

[Woodchuck]

Well, someone may want to try this......

I don't see any reason why inner and outer bearings and a grease seal can't be found to put a '65-66 V8 5-lug drum HUB on a '65-66 6 cylinder spindle pin. That solves problem #1. I also found that the rear drum for a '95 Toyota Camry has the same 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern and is very, very close in dimensions to the '65-66 9 inch front drum.

The center hole is 62mm as opposed to the original 61.9mm. The inner diameter is 228.0mm as opposed to the originals 228.6mm, the outside diameter is 272.0mm as opposed to 272.6mm on the OE. The biggest difference is in the depth which measures 70.8mm as opposed to the OE's 79.67mm. This means that the drum is about 5/16" SHORT but it may be tall enough so the entire shoe width fits inside. If it doesn't and there is space within the drum or the shoes could be shaved a bit on the outside, it could be accommodated by inserting a shim between the spindle and backing plate to move it out a bit. This combo would give you a 9" front brake with the correct 5 lug attachment.

 

[mike65]

IIRC one of my early Mustangs a 69 was a 200 6Cyl & that had 4 lug wheels, but my 70 Mustang was a 250 6Cyl & that had 5 lug wheels.
Mike.

 

[1966notch]

I've got a really bad idea. Cast iron welds really well correct? Weld the 4 holes shut, and machine surfaces on front and back flat. Then using a bridgeport mill that is centered over then drum using a dial indicator (perfectly centered) put in new holes for the five hole pattern. I used to be a machinist so it is very feasible. How safe would it be is the question? :shrug:

 

[22GT]

Well, someone may want to try this......

I don't see any reason why inner and outer bearings and a grease seal can't be found to put a '65-66 V8 5-lug drum HUB on a '65-66 6 cylinder spindle pin. That solves problem #1.

Have you ever had the V8 spindle side by side with the tiny six cylinder spindle? I have. The difference is so pronounced you can spot them 30 feet away. That would be a remarkable bearing set.

 

[mohawk51]

Maybe you could find a universal wheel for your spare that would fit the 4 and 5 lug pattern?

 

[22GT]

Do you want to go back to the 4 lug, 6 cylinder rear axle? I have one in Lampasas,TX. I'll trade it for your 5 lug 8".

I'd go for that.

 

[Varilux]

Do you want to go back to the 4 lug, 6 cylinder rear axle? I have one in Lampasas,TX. I'll trade it for your 5 lug 8".
Thanks for the offer- I would have been happy to purchase the 7.25" axle when mine went kaput!

Unfortunately, when I swapped to the 8" I had to have my driveshaft modified with a new rear U-Joint as well (since Ford in its great wisdom decided every variation of the '65 except for the 6cyl / manual trans would have the 1310 U-Joint). The front of the driveshaft has already been modified to go with my T-5 five speed. Plus, I'm thinking of going with Classic Inlines aluminum head in the future will feel better having the 8" back there at that point.

I don't see any reason why inner and outer bearings and a grease seal can't be found to put a '65-66 V8 5-lug drum HUB on a '65-66 6 cylinder spindle pin. That solves problem #1. I also found that the rear drum for a '95 Toyota Camry has the same 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern and is very, very close in dimensions to the '65-66 9 inch front drum.
Now I'm wondering what kind of project concluded with someone knowing that a Toyota Camry drum would be a close swap in! Seriously, thanks for the out-of-the-box thinking! If I ever went with something like that, I'd have to write up a "readme" document for any future owners (imagine someone 10 years from now going to change the front drums and finding that setup without any documentation ).

I've got a really bad idea. Cast iron welds really well correct? Weld the 4 holes shut, and machine surfaces on front and back flat. Then using a bridgeport mill that is centered over then drum using a dial indicator (perfectly centered) put in new holes for the five hole pattern. I used to be a machinist so it is very feasible. How safe would it be is the question?
I was actually thinking along those same lines... however, its almost like Ford has deliberately taken that option off the table. The periphery of the 6 cyl hub is not round like the 8 cyl... It looks like it would be challenging to get the 5 holes safely placed. However, if it could be done, those Camry drums would possibly solve the other end of the problem.

Some time ago, I was speaking with someone (who was recommended on this site) about a disc conversion, and he told me they had a new kit that would upgrade the spindles and steering linkage to the 8 cyl setup (think it might have been someone at CSRP). In the end, I may give in and go that route. That way, if I ever sell her on she'll be pretty much ready for someone to just drop a 289/302 in the front (the only changes left to do would be new springs and motor mounts- everything else would have been done already).

Seems like everyone is in a rush to eradicate 6 cyl early Mustangs, so it would be a good selling point. I would love to know just how much Ford "saved" per car with the weaker 6 cylinder components (knowing you'd have to subtract out the cost of the extra inventory and assembly line complications associated with the different components). I'd be surprised if the the difference was more than $10 / car.

 

[gregb]

10 dollars a car on 100000+ units adds up fast.......I'd consider that a tidy sum now, back then, well.