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289 Head Build - What Cam to use?

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#42 · (Edited)
bartl said:
The four-stroke engine has been around since about 1876. Heck, Ford has an all-aluminum 32-valve double-overhead cam V8 engine in 1940. Modern technology? Here's Ron Iskendarian's take on split pattern cams....

Tech Tips 2000? - Isky Racing Cams
Click to expand...
Hey.. We're talking 289 + street cam's here not the entire history of engine and cam technology! Do you understand?

:cheers:
 
#45 ·
Fastback97 said:
Have you heard the expression, you can't teach old dogs new tricks?

:cheers:
Click to expand...
Well, if you think split-pattern cams are some new technology then yes, I do. Believe it or not, the principles of the four-stroke engine is pretty much the same as when it was introduced. Every change to camshaft events has a particular effect. Do you somehow think that the engineers at FORD had a "stupid day" when they developed the HiPo grind? There wasn't a NEED to extend exhaust duration.

Are there instances where it makes sense to run a split pattern cam? Sure. Forced induction is one. Drag racing, when shifting above the HP peak to keep in the power band is another.
 
#46 ·
bartl said:
Well, if you think split-pattern cams are some new technology then yes, I do. Believe it or not, the principles of the four-stroke engine is pretty much the same as when it was introduced. Every change to camshaft events has a particular effect. Do you somehow think that the engineers at FORD had a "stupid day" when they developed the HiPo grind? There wasn't a NEED to extend exhaust duration.
Click to expand...
Modern, recent times as opposed to 47 years ago.

I think the Ford engineers were very intelligent. Camshaft tech has come a long way since then though. Hey, don't get me wrong, the C9OZ is a definitely a fun street cam, however it is not going to have the same useable powerband as a modern split duration is my point. Some people may prefer a narrow power band and nostalgia of the original tech. I'd rather have the dual patter with wider power band, without any tradeoffs.

I'd be surprised if any custom cam grinder would put you into a single pattern with a street 289.

:cheers:
 
#47 · (Edited)
HoosierBuddy said:
I ran one of the comp xe cams on my 289 with AFR heads and was very impressed with it. My suggestion is you are going about this all wrong. Simply call the Comp Cams tech line, tell them your whole setup and ask them what cam to buy. Or, call a couple of cam manufacturers. They have about 1000 times more experience than any of us will have.

Phil
Click to expand...
+1 on calling the tech line for a couple of manufactures. I called Comp, I called Crane, Isky and one other. I told them what I had and what I wanted and each selected a cam that would meet my needs. When I did a side by side comparison the specs of each were very close. I chose the Crane Energizer 130032 grind because I've used Crane back in the 70s and was happy with the results, and Summit had a price that was below the other manufactures plus they recommended the valve springs I should use, the others didn't so I ordered it as a package from Summit along with a dual roller timing set that fit under the timing cover.
 
#48 ·
A/T instead of 4-speed?!...Sorry my mistake. Maybe knock back on the duration a tad. You may need to make a little more vacuum with the C-4. I still like more exhaust duration/split duration for the simple reason when running mufflers it gives the cylinders a little more time to get the exhaust expended.(I know what Ron Isky said.....) It also gives the "sound"(that's important on a weekend cruiser) a little more "thump" holding the exhaust valves open a little longer!
I like the tighter LSA of 110/108* too. Gives more bottom end grunt (above say 1200/1500rpm..just above idle RPM). AND it contributes to the street rod sound too.
Ask your machinist about the swapping side with the pistons. Gives a better rod angle and its free HP.
Strictly my OPPINION on what to use.
6sally6
 
Discussion starter · #50 · (Edited)
bartl said:
The four-stroke engine has been around since about 1876. Heck, Ford has an all-aluminum 32-valve double-overhead cam V8 engine in 1940. Modern technology? Here's Ron Iskendarian's take on split pattern cams....

Tech Tips 2000? - Isky Racing Cams

There's nothing wrong with the C9OZ-6250-C and Howard's is NOT a "near exact replica" of it, either. You might want to call these guys... Cam Grinding, Camshafts, Racing & Performance Equipment
Click to expand...
What are the specifications on the C9OZ-6250-C since Howards is not correct. I'm going to call around this morning to some cam builders and then go see the head shop afterwards (if time permits) and I can discuss with them my options and get their input as well...

6sally6, I like the way you explain what the cam will do with the changes and will also discuss that with them....

Allen
 
#51 ·
Turnall said:
What are the specifications on the C9OZ-6250-C since Howards is not correct. I'm going to call around this morning to some cam builders and then go see the head shop afterwards (if time permits) and I can discuss with them my options and get their input as well...

6sally6, I like the way you explain what the cam will do with the changes and will also discuss that with them....

Allen
Click to expand...
Ford Camshaft ID & Applications
 
#54 · (Edited)
bartl said:
If you want to help out the exhaust side without compromising the intake then throw a set of 1.7:1 rockers on the exhausts.
Click to expand...
The cam is a better solution of getting more *lift* on the exhaust side than 1.7 rocker arms. Basically less abuse on the valve guides, springs = less maintenance.

Turnall said:
Comp cams suggested this cam. Seems the RPM range is a bit high. Any thoughts...
Click to expand...
N+271H (219/226 @ .050")
31-670-4 - NOSTALGIA PLUS Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft

Did you tell them your running an auto with 3.00 rear?

The XE262H (218/224 @ .050") would be about as big as I'd go with 3.00 rear gears and its advertised RPM range is 1300 - 5600. Notice it is recommended with 3.23 - 4.10 gears.
31-238-3 - Xtreme Energy? Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts
 
#55 ·
I think 110* LSA (or108*) would be a better choice than 112*.
Have you tried Delta Cams?(1-800-562-5500) That is who I use and they are great! Tell Ken what you have...what you want...what all WE have said... He will take it from there and help you pick the right stuff for your custom grind. Price will be less than Comp/Howard's shelf grinds.
6sally6
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
Sorry guys, was in meetings all day yesterday afternoon/evening and didn't get home until late. I have shown the specs to the head shop of the C9OZ-6250-C and the COMP Cams Nostalgia Plus Camshafts 31-670-4 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing. Seems to me from talking to them that they were concerned (asking) about the cam because of the lift numbers. Since the lift numbers were close on both of the cams shown, they seemed good with that. They are not doing anything with the heads (they've ground the seats to make sure they were good already) until I bring them the springs and such which they advised to get from who I buy the cam from ("they will know what springs you need for the cam you buy"). So I'm still a bit up in the air on this because I just don't see how, with the information given here, the cams can be all over the place as far as the numbers go. So I will indeed call a cam grinder and try to go that route.

I do have a question about "hardening" the exhaust. The shop, given what I have told them the use will be, doesn't see this as a big concern. Before anyone says, find another shop, I have used these guys before and they did harden the exhaust on my 66 6 cylinder head. They will do it if I want it done. My question is, is it necessary, and what does it accomplish?

Thanks for all the responses so far, and again, I have to stress, this is NOT going to be a hot rod/1/4 mile machine...

Allen
 
#59 ·
Turnall said:
I do have a question about "hardening" the exhaust. The shop, given what I have told them the use will be, doesn't see this as a big concern. Before anyone says, find another shop, I have used these guys before and they did harden the exhaust on my 66 6 cylinder head. They will do it if I want it done. My question is, is it necessary, and what does it accomplish?

Thanks for all the responses so far, and again, I have to stress, this is NOT going to be a hot rod/1/4 mile machine...

Allen
Click to expand...
Back in "The Day" when leaded additive was in gasoline, the lead acted as a lubricant/dampening agent/heat shield against wear on the seat when the exhaust valvesclosed. When the oil companies stopped putting lead in gasoline the car manufacturers began using hardened exhaust valve seats to prevent the eventual wearing of the exhaust seat which would cause the valves to eventually recess into the head as it wore into the seat. Eventually is an unknown number of miles but my coupe car, when I bought her read 78000+- miles but I don't know if the odometer rolled over and it was 178000 miles. Anyway my exhaust valves had receded into the head at that point. A lead substitute could be used but that gets expensive if you add it at every fill up.

So if it hasn't been done already, I'd get it done just for piece of mind.
 
#60 ·
Unless you're putting that engine in a motorhome or otherwise subjecting it to constant moderate-to-high loads you'll be fine. Amoco sold lead-free gasoline all through the '50's, '60's and '70's and I never heard of a case of valve seat recession caused by it's use. You'd usually find issues in medium-to-heavy gasoline-fueled trucks and stationary engines, even WITH leaded fuel.
 
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