If you have factory PS, keep it. All the parts are still available new or rebuilt.

Swapping to the Borgeson is not really an upgrade, it is just different.

Considering the parts cost $1000 and the labor involved, I don't see any benefit.

 

I went with the upgrade after rebuilding my existing. 68 coup 302. It is a game changer. Nice and tight.

 

Titch, the Isuzu Rodeo box that Borgeson sells really ISN'T an upgrade. AND it may cause problems with the fitment of other parts later. While we DO have folks here who have installed the Borgeson and are happy with it, we ALSO have a fellw who was so unhappy with the borgeson gear that he removed it and went back to the stock system. Maybe he'll chime in. Is there something wrong with the stock system that you have now ? LSG

 

I’ve just fitted a new pump, a rebuilt control valve and all new hoses. The ram was new about a year ago so these not a problem with the set up. The problem is routing the hoses to clear the headers as I can’t use the standard isolating rubber and bracket. Maybe someone can help there.

 

Can't you have longer hoses made?

 

manual steering?

 

There are brackets and hoses to route under the engine mounts. Does that help you?
Talk to these guys = Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering

 

There are brackets and hoses to route under the engine mounts. Does that help you?
Talk to these guys = Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering

Thanks, I’m going to check that out.

 

I had it done on my 1968 coupe many many years ago.
I have not had any problems with the install.
I like how the car feels and drives.
I am using the Borgeson version of a power steering pump.
Personally I am happy with my set up and have no regrets.

 

Good to hear a positive review about it. I’m getting ready to do it after a long contemplation as the previous owner removed all the power steering. Any tips or advice to get good results like you would be appreciated. Like are you having any problems with heat being so close to headers? Connection issues? Issues? Thanks.

 

If you are using small block hoses there will be a problem with using headers.
You can use BB hoses which run along the lower frame rail, or deep 6 those headers.

 

Yes I have small block hoses. I’m sorry I don’t understand BB hoses ? Deep 6 must be US terminology ? I would be really appreciate it if you could explain for me. Cheers

 

@Titch I have a 66, i know different set up, but I had the factory power steering on it and it was a bit sloppy. I should have rebuilt my original but I saw the same advertisement and thru out my factory setup for the Borgesson box. It wasn't any better. I had @CHOCK set me up with a full reconditioned system, sold off the Borg box and put the factory set up back in. I am running shorty headers, Z bar and have no fit issues. I know, different car. If @CHOCK says to use the big block hoses, do that. He knows this stuff. The factory set up is fine. A borgesson box is NOT better. If you didn't have power steering and was looking to add it, different story. The Borg set up is probably cheaper but not necessary better.

 

Many people call a Windsor engine a small block, although Ford never did. FE (390/428) and 385 series (429/460 sometimes are called Big Blocks and are physically much larger engines. The hoses were longer due to different routing than the 289/302.

Deep six means throw away.

 

Great, I’ve discovered some of your older posts on the same problem. Very helpful thanks, all you input is really appreciated

 

Just for giggles: A leadline is marked at 5 and 7 fathoms. By the deep six means midway between the 5 and 7 marks.

Mark Twain means at the 2 fathom mark.

Every sailor should be proficient with a leadline.

 

Have to apologize to the poster.
Deep 6 is a old term I learned in the 50's from others. Yes it means throw the thing in the water (lake-Ocean- River) get rid of it.
Can't relate the number of these Isuzu boxes that have had the pleasure of "DEEP 6" when the owner realized the cockeyed non fit, non correct steering.

 

From what I've read the hoses supplied may be too short. So you might have to make hoses that fit. Power Steering Hose, Power Steering Hose Ends

 

Well I’ll know this weekend.

 

I installed the Borgeson power steering box a couple of years ago. I had two fires from the original Ford slave when it leaked oil onto the rubber sleeve and then the heat from the headers would set it on fire.
I also installed tilt steering earlier. Had to cut 2" off the steering column, because the Borgeson steering box is longer. That was no big deal.
I'm happy with this setup. No problems.

 

"Borgeson Upgrade" of a Mustang "Bendix-type" external power assist system is an oxymoron, like "Senate Intelligence Committee".

A handy analogy I can think of would be to replace your Rolex, because the band won't stay tight, with a "cheap imitator".

Just for giggles, I found a NEW Isuzu Trooper steering box online for $141 and a new "Sagninaw" pump for $75, a pressure and return hose for under $50, for the pair. Add a coupler and that's about $300 worth of RETAIL parts that Borgeson sells for $1,000. Nope, I'd rather buy new quality hoses and pay Chock to rebuild the pump and control valve and steering box and go another 50 years before it's needed again.

 

And yet another unhelpful post in a Borgeson thread by the haters. Even Chock had positive input.

If you don't like them, start a new thread on how much you hate the change (you don't even have to include any facts) and let the people looking for help get that aid uncluttered by opinions and hyperbole.

 

"Unhelpful"? Not if I can keep someone from trashing a perfectly good design for one of inferior quality. I don't "hate the change" if you're talking about a "change" to power steering. If you're talking about ripping our the OEM power steering for a Borgeson then I think it's about as sensible as pulling a 3.03 3-speed because it leaks and installing a new 2.77, if such a unit was available.

 

This Borgeson nonsense always cracks me up. We already figured out what it would take to improve on that “horrible” Bendix setup on the 65-70 cars. It was stupidly expensive to be the better mousetrap. Took custom casting of a box/case and a custom sector shaft….. and the inevitable Saginaw pump, for the system to actually be better than stock.
The Borgeson will be “better” for a short time or “better” to someone who has never experienced a well-sorted Bendix system. Like 22GT says, you don’t see the Corvette guys complaining about their pre-82 (Bendix) steering system.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

This Borgeson nonsense always cracks me up. We already figured out what it would take to improve on that “horrible” Bendix setup on the 65-70 cars. It was stupidly expensive to be the better mousetrap. Took custom casting of a box/case and a custom sector shaft….. and the inevitable Saginaw pump, for the system to actually be better than stock.
The Borgeson will be “better” for a short time or “better” to someone who has never experienced a well-sorted Bendix system. Like 22GT says, you don’t see the Corvette guys complaining about their pre-82 (Bendix) steering system.

Ya know, I hear this on this forum about how Corvette guys are all happy with their PS bendix system. And this is always brought up as the argument against the Borgeson or when some says 'my stock PS system feels loose'. Well, I just did a quick google search on the subject, and guess what... the Corvette guys are saying the same thing

Just have a look at the comments in the screenshot below. Reads a lot like our Forum sometimes. Look, I had Chock go thru my entire PS system when I tore down my 68 FB. I even found the larger pulley on eBay and he graciousy installed it for me. I'm happy with the sytem in my car. No leaks and it feels really good. But it is a much 'lighter' feeling than the modern cars we're used to. I can see what there's a market for EPAS. I not trying to start of holy war here, just wondering why it's such a sin here to say the stock PS system is not perfect.

 

Hi,
I’ve seen the Borgeson power steering box upgrade advertised on their website and rather like the look of it. My car has the Ford power steering pump, control valve and steering ram fitted. I also have Hedman headers installed.
Has anyone had experience of this conversion or advise on doing it ?

I converted my original power steering in my 69 vert. 351w, 4bbl a few years ago and have never looked back. I love my Borgeson set up. Haven’t had one issue with it. Got tired of the drips on my garage floor and decided to go with the Borgeson set up. All integral, no more hoses underneath, no more leaks.

Hope this helps.👍👍

 

You’re never going to have the feedback feel of a high quality integral box like a Saginaw, when comparing it to a stock Bendix power-assist type setup…… even if you kill some of the over-boosting with a 7” pump pulley.
The feel of the Bendix is largely courtesy of the reaction valve and the gage of spring acting upon it. (the engineer’s explanation of that function in his notes attached to the late 50’s blueprint are salient, if you can find that stuff online)
Then you’ve got the rubber bushings isolating the shaft of the POWER RAM at the “frame” rail. Way too soft in the Ford application and they “argue” with the rubber used to isolate the idler arm in its bracket. This is particularly a nightmare with low profile/short sidewall tires.
All kinds of areas for things to be not quite right
and cause issues….. like needing to make continual steering corrections (but the alignment is correct), etc

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

Same thing--Here the scenarios are the same. You can lead a horse water, but you can not make him drink-

 

Wow, touched a few raw nerves here.

I'll retract my statement that Chock was helpful. Log him fully under the Borgeson hater list. Don't really want my "house" to drink water either.

I'll stand by my statement that you guys should really stay out of these threads.

 

Horse/house nearly same thing--Darn beer!!!
Thanks for the correction Professor

 

I had a lot of problems with my Borgeson Saginaw pump. After 3 failed I purchased one from CVF. Has been working fine. I can’t comment on the Ford power steering system as I never had it. My (previous) mechanic put the Borgeson system in upgrading from manual with the new V8 engine. I didn’t know anything about PS in Mustangs. Having said that, I do like the feel of the Borgeson system. I get good road feel but with the power steering benefit.

 

I looked at a Borgeson system on Mike Maier's site. The setup that he sells comes with a KRC pump.

 

I was just about to ask if Maier is using a Bergeron box.

 

Well, most of us on here are shade tree mechanics. My point is it can easily install at home in your garage without fancy tools or mad fabrication skills. It’s also readily available on line to be ordered and quickly installed. I won’t argue what the best is, but certainly as good as the factory system for a weekend car.

 

I think this thread has run its course and at risk of spiraling out of civility. Happy Holidays, guys…

 

This is exciting😂

 

I have a Borgeson with an ididit tilt in my 65. It's ok, but not better than oem. Both systems do the job and both are better than armstrong steering, at least to my 65 year old back/neck/shoulders.