I think most people don't understand that most of the early cars had a slow:1 box and expect it to have quicker steering than they do

 

The next might be perceived slop from a manual box, high profile tires, even 16" 45's using a high ratio box. High ratio=low effort.
You might think its a sloppy box bouncing the steering wheel back and fourth several inches while stationary. Look closely at the wheel and tire bead. It'll squirm some initiating the turn, during what feels like slop.

 

I upgraded my suspension and sent my original steering box to Chock for rebuilding. He found some other issues with it after opening it up, called me to let me know what he found, and to get the go ahead to see if he could fix it. A few days later, I got my box back, all new looking with new paint, and it felt like a new car once I got it installed. If you don't get the box rebuilt, what are you really dealing with?

 

a hot box !

 

Two questions. Can you get a steering box out of a complete V-8 65-66 car without pulling the motor?

Can I buy a rebuilt box and send back my original one as a core?

 

Yes, but not a whole lot of fun. It helps to remove the master cylinder and other stuff in the way, and then pull the box out the top. It really won't go out the bottom if you have the one piece box and shaft.

 

I don't need to know anything about steering boxes other than to send them to Dan. It's what he does at a very reasonable price and in an amazingly quick turn around time. Sad that he and Carol are working this time of year instead of enjoying being snow birds.

 

Oh, sorry - Q#2 - not sure. I'm installing a Borgeson P/S box and pump. Fits in the same space as the non-power box. The fluid pressure is applied inside the steering box - no cylinders and bunches of hoses. Pretty cool, methinks.

 

Seems to be a lot of people having issues with those boxes. Others love them. If I wanted to get away from the stock system I think I would go EPAS over Borgeson.

If you haven’t bought the Borgeson and are really set on one. Check out this. Borgenson power steering kit

 

Yes, you can pull the steering box out of a 65/66 V8 car, but it isn't a lot of fun. It helps to remove the steering column and wheel, of course, but also the front seat. In my case, I had to also remove the header, z-bar linkage, export brace, and then lift the engine on the driver's side. Oh yeah, the driver side valve cover too.

 

And this is why my steering box is currently on its way to you Dan!


Sent from the Rockies of Colorado.

 

Does this apply to the 71-73 box?

 

yes. thats a saginaw box but it wears out to

 

When I bought my car in 1989 the handling was terrible. Every bump I hit sent the front end weaving from side to side.

I replaced the upper and lower control arms as well as the springs. That helped but it still didn't handle as well as I thought it should. I drove it that way for many years and it probably made me a more attentive driver.

I recently added roller spring perches, bilstein shocks, adjustable strut rods, new inner and outer tie rods, and did my own alignment in an attempt to make the car handle the way I thought it should. All of this helped a lot but it still missed the mark for me.

I finally contacted Dan to rebuild my steering box and on a lark asked him if he had any rebuilt 16:1 boxes. To my surprise and delight he said that he had two that he'd just rebuilt. I counted myself lucky and bought one of them that day.

I'm completely willing to say that installing that rebuilt box made as much or more difference in the car's handling than all the suspension and steering mods I made beforehand combined.

A 50 odd year old steering box, especially with manual steering, should be rebuilt or replaced at the earliest opportunity.

 

I'm completely willing to say that installing that rebuilt box made as much or more difference in the car's handling than all the suspension and steering mods I made beforehand combined.

Thanks to you and others for relaying that info. Let's get real. "I've replaced or refreshed everything" means just that—everything—from your fingers to the tread, steering and suspension. Speak the truth to yourself first.

I'm inserting this here, as over the decades I've been involved, this has been a frustrating issue for many or most of us to the point that I believe most rack & pinion kits are sold based on incomplete rehabs results. While I've had the general conversation with many, I'll take a moment to give some context from others, paraphrasing two rare instances where I let others drive my car:
Me: Want to see how I like a street car to handle? You need to refresh everything and a new, different alignment to cover for mods and age, such as radials, sagging shock towers, or even minor accidents over 50+ years. (I then let them drive my car aggressively around the block.)
Them: WOW! That's exactly the steering response I want! Who's R&P kit did you use?
We get back, and it's at that point I tell and show them it is all entirely stock manual slow-ratio, except fatter and taller tires and a 1" drop, but everything (that word used properly) inspected, refreshed or replaced with a custom alignment. Shock is the best way to describe their responses, combined with excitement to begin planning their total rehab.

One said he would still prefer power steering of some sort, but could see the potential and was impressed by the ease and response of the manual steering. Your preferences may vary, but not the concept. Other conversations usually reveal the anti-stock proponent had never actually driven a properly-done bone-stock full steering rehab.

Considering the importance of the box as a critical link in the steering chain; I'd consider a box rebuild rather than a proper adjustment, as it's either an involved and VERY specific process to do correctly yourself, or expensive enough labor to justify pulling it for a rebuild instead if you're farming-out your work. Just my 2 pistons-worth, and I hope it helps.

 

I've seen a bunches of older posts saying the power steering boxes....because they are after the boost (power steering)....do not wear nearly as manual boxes. Fact or myth Chock?

 

That's always been my experience. I used to cruise old-school junkyards looking for certain things, one of my chief targets was PS boxes. Typically the only thing that ruins them is water intrusions from sitting out in the rain.

The power boost in the linkage insures there is very little pressure on the sector gears.

 

i think the natural tendency or old wives tale is to crank down on the adj to try to "take up slack"

all that does is throw all the geometry out the window

I cant count how many times in the 80s i saw shops cranking down the adj "to take up slack"

I have about 1" of play. definitely on my bucket list to have the box rebuilt

I'll probably have to have a shop do the bull work as im getting too old to crawl under cars anymore
bad knees, bad ankles, bad back, and i cant see worth a manure anymore

 

Chock: Is there any way to restore worn gears (on the pitman arm shaft and/or the rack block)? Or is it just a matter of replacing with good used parts?

I assume they can be machined/ground, but it's not a simple operation with the various tapers

 

Chock: Is there any way to restore worn gears (on the pitman arm shaft and/or the rack block)? Or is it just a matter of replacing with good used parts?

I assume they can be machined/ground, but it's not a simple operation with the

 

The typical result of "snugging up" the sector shaft adjustment screw...

 

@CHOCK

Do you have a website or pricing to rebuild a 65 box?

Thanks!

 

@CHOCK

Do you have a website or pricing to rebuild a 65 box?

Thanks!

www.chockostangclassicmustang.com

 

@CHOCK thanks for the advice earlier today. I’ll take it to heart and run with it.

 

Timely thread as I just completed the upgrade of my stock 19:1 box to a CHOCK rebuilt 16:1 box. I bought a 16:1 box on eBay and had the seller ship the box to CHOCK. Due to finding a quality seller, this worked extremely well. CHOCK rebuilt the box and shipped it to me and at a VERY reasonable price. I got a quote for a rebuild locally from a trusted shop and it was twice as much.

As for removal and replacement of the box in my 1966 here's what I did:
-Jack up car as high as possible
-remove z-bar
-remove header - difficult
-unbolt pitman from drag link
-unbolt and remove box from the top
I'm attaching a pic of the removal. You can see the box sliding UNDER the MC bar still installed. My biggest issue was the pitman arm.


Most importantly, the car drives excellent. My original steering wheel was broken so I also upgraded to a smaller wheel. Steering effort is much less than with the worn 19:1 box and with all the rest of the suspension being basically new, I could not be happier.

Thank you CHOCK (Dan) !

 

,,,


Most importantly, the car drives excellent. My original steering wheel was broken so I also upgraded to a smaller wheel. Steering effort is much less than with the worn 19:1 box and with all the rest of the suspension being basically new, I could not be happier.

You're using a 16:1 box and that tiny steering wheel without power steering? And you like it? What size tires?

 

To the question of 71-73 PS cars, I had Power Steering Services rebuild mine some years ago with the 12.7:1 conversion and it has been great.

Power steering gearbox rebuilders — PowerSteering.com

www.powersteering.com

 

I just bought a 16:1 for my 65 to replace the 5-turn box. I’m debating the Shelby quick steering idler arm / pitman arm too. Chock suggested it’s overkill on a street car…. Any contradictory advice?

 

Mine did not come off easily either. It was put on at the factory in 1966 and untouched until I tried to remove it. I tried a puller, torch, hammering, pulling/torching/hammering, all with no luck. I'm not proud to say, but I sacrificed the box for the pitman arm.

 

I removed the box with the pitman arm attached. The pitman arm can only be removed without damaging the box if the pitman arm is in the center position on the box. Don’t ask me how I know this.

 

I pulled the pitman arm in the car, maybe that's why I could get it out without lifting the car. It was still a tight fit, but it worked.

 

I gotta take an arm pitman and drive down the street and see if these guys can make it fit this box. I think I can make it fit my 65 gnatsum drof. I will need to getta housing.

"RACE BOX" Saginaw Steering Gearbox Long Shaft Off-road Race Specs 12:1

This is a modified Saginaw gearbox that has an extended sector shaft - a steering setup that is found in many off-road race cars. It is available in an 808 (inside the frame mount) or a 708 (outside the frame mount) which is most popular. This steering gearbox is built to full race specs. All...

leepowersteering.com