I've seen rotors glowing from heat. You might want to consider employing some brake cooling first. Some modified dust shields, hose and ducting could fix your problem without having to bastardize your from brakes...

 

I do plan on running some ducting to the brakes. Possibly cutting some holes in my steel valance like the shelby fiberglass version and run the ducts like that. Yet I fear that may not be enough

 

It wasn't quite clear to me from your description if the brakes only show signs of getting very hot (smoking, crackling, turning purple) or do they also stop to work?

I agree with Woodchuck, try some cooling hoses first. I think I would start with something crude just to see if it works/helps and if it does, you can always put more effort into a neater installation.

But even with improved cooling, using the stock brakes like you do will probably still be on the border of what the stock brakes are capable of handling. They're pretty good, but at the end of the day, they are of course stock brakes from the 60's.

 

It wasn't quite clear to me from your description if the brakes only show signs of getting very hot (smoking, crackling, turning purple) or do they also stop to work?

I agree with Woodchuck, try some cooling hoses first. I think I would start with something crude just to see if it works/helps and if it does, you can always put more effort into a neater installation.

But even with improved cooling, using the stock brakes like you do will probably still be on the border of what the stock brakes are capable of handling. They're pretty good, but at the end of the day, they are of course stock brakes from the 60's.

They also stop wanting to work. The pedal stays nice and firm but requires more and more effort to stop the car. After letting it cool its back to superb braking

I believe that I am at the limit for the size brakes I currently have

 

The 65/66 Mustang discs are junk….. regardless of the Shelby guys who love to point out they raced successfully on those rotors. They are too thin in width and the vanes aren’t the greatest, so ventilation is not what you need to really see. Ducting is a good way to go, unless you upgrade to the old TA B302 front brakes. You won’t be fading those out…..

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

At the Sebring 12 Hr, the corner workers have bets as to whose brakes will be bright enough to see glowing as the sun goes down. Of course, they're not running street pads.

I think SorT has brake duct kits. They also have bolt-on larger front brakes. Have you considered discs that are slotted and drilled?

 

I think SorT has brake duct kits. They also have bolt-on larger front brakes.

Are not all brake kits bolt on? 😁

 

I am running the S197 Mustang Steve brackets with 12.5" calipers/rotors and 17 x 8 TT2's with 4.81" BS. Minimal clearance and MS says they don't even work. Will post pictures, if they show up...... Calipers tear the weights off the wheel when I end up off course.

 

I am running the S197 Mustang Steve brackets with 12.5" calipers/rotors and 17 x 8 TT2's with 4.81" BS. Minimal clearance and MS says they don't even work. Will post pictures, if they show up...... Calipers tear the weights off the wheel when I end up off course.
View attachment 932936

View attachment 932937

Any spacers needed to clear?

I found this link https://stangnet.com/mustang-forums...ums/threads/13-2013-mustang-gt-brake-swap-in-progress-pics-and-question.863899/

some other guy on the VMF claims he just needed about a 1/8 spacer to clear his TT2s and 13.2s

I got the 13.2 inch rotors and calipers for $50 so not fitting isnt the end of the world. Ill just go down to the 05-10 brakes

 

Just for interest - TA 12" brakes with stock parts (except bracket): https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mdmp-1103-1969-ford-mustang-boss-302-trans-am-brake-swap/

 

You could of course stop racing modern cars down mountains? I recently realized I could no longer compete in CamT, classic American muscle "traditional" when they allowed up to 2002 Camaros and 2004 Mustangs with nanny features. A mans got to realize his, or his cars, limitations.

 

I had s197 12.5" brakes on my street rod with 17" TT wheels. There is no way they'd fit without some large spacers, the problem is spokes curve inward as they move toward the barrel so they hit the caliper. Ultimately I went with v6 s197 11.5" rotors to aid with clearance. I think sn95 13" cobra brakes would do better as the caliper is much smaller.

 

I have used no spacers with Mustang Steve bracketry, (stock, big pin, or SoT billet spindles,) stock 1965 hubs, and 17 x8 TT2 4.81BS wheels. It is very very close though!!! I'm right behind you in upgrading if you pull this off @GeoffTheGiraffe !

 

I did this swap a while back and am happy. I did a half-assed write up and others contributed with some decent info. I am running a .25" spacer on the front to clear the calipers. I tried an .125" (1/8) and it still rubbed. Hope its helpful:

1966 Mustang Disk Brake Conversion Questions

I currently have a 1966 Mustang 289 Coupe with a 289/4bbl/4spd, z-bar, manual steering, and 4 wheel manual drum brakes. The car will be used as a canyon cruiser for spirited driving and the suspension has been upgraded with all new moog components, adj. strut rods, 1 1/8 sway bar, arning...

www.vintage-mustang.com

 

Very good to know. Thank you

By chance do you remember the wheel backspacing/offset you used?

 

Grab a couple of these.....

...to mount just under the valance, hook to some dryer hose and hang the open hose ends to blow on the calipers/rotors.

 

Go big or go home! 😁

2016 Mustang GT brakes front (14”) and rear (13”) work great.

Requires 18” wheels.

Sounds like your front brakes are doing all of the work.

Might want to check/upgrade rear brakes.

 

Go big or go home! 😁
2016 Mustang GT brakes front (14”) and rear (13”) work great.
Requires 18” wheels.

Any idea if these (yours) use the same Mustang Steve brackets as the 2014 GT brakes?

 

You mentioned a proportioning valve in the first post, is it an adjustable one? If it’s not, you’re going to want one with the new set up you’re considering, and you might want to try it with your current setup and see if more rear brake helps your issue.

 

Raptor…The MustangSteve brackets I have are for 2015-2023 Mustang brakes.

Apparently they work for the 14” Ford 4 piston calipers and 15” Brembo 6 piston calipers on the latest generation.

I would contact MS and verify what you need for your calipers.

 

You can fit Cadillac ATS front Brembo calipers in 17" wheels with 2014 GT rotors. Maybe this is an option?

https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/diy-13-brembo-brake-conversion.1192048/#replies

 

View attachment 933093
View attachment 933092

Go big or go home! 😁

2016 Mustang GT brakes front (14”) and rear (13”) work great.

Requires 18” wheels.

Sounds like your front brakes are doing all of the work.

Might want to check/upgrade rear brakes.

You mentioned a proportioning valve in the first post, is it an adjustable one? If it’s not, you’re going to want one with the new set up you’re considering, and you might want to try it with your current setup and see if more rear brake helps your issue.

Yes I have an adjustable proportioning valve.

Rear brakes are definitely putting in some work. I had to turn down the proportioning valve pressure to the rears after I swapped to manual brakes as the rears kept locking up first

 

I'm planning on upgrading my front brakes to help combat the tremendous brake fade I experience. This car lives 99% of its time in the mountains. Current set up is the K/H 4 pistons with EBC redstuff pads. Manual brakes 1" bore MC. The rears are stock drums prop valve with a 10lb residual valve. The rears never fade or get too hot, they dont do much anyways due to the light rear end. No issues there

It stops amazing. No complaints there. Its after several repeated stops (I mean very hard 80-30mph) that the brakes leave a lot to be desired. I once disappeared on a new BMW chasing me on the downhill. I pulled over to wait for him to catch up and noticed my rotors were crackling and smoking harder than my Vietnam vet neighbor. I shone a light to discover that my rotors had turned a nice blue/purple color from the heat. Luckily nothing warped.

I was able to secure some very very cheap 2012 Mustang GT 13.2 inch rotors and calipers with pads in great condition. Im going to need new brake pads and tires within the next few months so I might as well take the opportunity to swap my 16x7 16x8 TT2 staggered setup to a square 17x8 TT2 setup

I have a couple questions for those have done the swap and are running 17 x 8 TT2 wheels. I've done plenty of research on the topic and have seen it done. By the looks of it, only a small spacer would be required to clear the caliper. My main question for the wheels is what backspace wheels did you use? The easier/cheaper wheel to get is the one with 4.81" BS

Second question. Just confirming that 65-73 v8 drum brake hubs are the same with the only difference being the bearing sets for the bigger spindle pins of later years? I am running 1970 big pin drum brake spindles. I stupidly threw out all the old drum stuff when I switched to disks but found a cheap front drum assembly for a 68. Was hoping to salvage the hubs from that assembly

Besides that, The swap seems pretty straight forward.

I use 13" rotors behind 17x7 LW80s with 4.25" backspacing. However, I don't use the Mustang rotors and calipers, I am currrently using aftermarket Corvette rotors and calipers:

It fits...but I think that is mainly because of the heavy scalloping of the LW80 wheel spokes. I have a little over 1/8" clearance to the calipers. So yeah, you can fit some 13" brakes behind 17" wheels but it all comes down to the caliper design in the end. I guess my setup doesn't really count though...since I am running a hybrid corvette-hub MII-style spindles on a MI-style suspension....still though you can at least see the details of what caliper designs should work.

View attachment 933093
View attachment 933092

Go big or go home! 😁

2016 Mustang GT brakes front (14”) and rear (13”) work great.

Requires 18” wheels.

Sounds like your front brakes are doing all of the work.

Might want to check/upgrade rear brakes.

Rear brakes only do 25% of the work at most in any car. Upgrading the rear brakes won't change anything, they aren't at capacity.

 

With talk of rear brakes, I'm not sure if this is the place to stick metering valves in; but the metering valve (if equipped - NOT proportioning valve) only delays front brake application (often called a "hold off" valve) forces the rear brakes to lead application. Again, not the proportioning valve - different animal.

While often claimed to reduce front brake wear in easy driving; when well-adjusted it improves braking by 'squatting' the chassis, rather than nose-diving when you hit the brakes, and can allow greater rear-brake application. A rather large benefit if worked into the system well.

Brake Metering Valve Function

Brake metering valves function explained. Brake metering valve work with the vehicle's proportioning valve. These valves achieve balance in system's braking by restricting and allowing fluid to flow.

www.freeasestudyguides.com

PS: special bleeding procedures required.

 

I'm planning on upgrading my front brakes to help combat the tremendous brake fade I experience. This car lives 99% of its time in the mountains. Current set up is the K/H 4 pistons with EBC redstuff pads. Manual brakes 1" bore MC. The rears are stock drums prop valve with a 10lb residual valve. The rears never fade or get too hot, they dont do much anyways due to the light rear end. No issues there

It stops amazing. No complaints there. Its after several repeated stops (I mean very hard 80-30mph) that the brakes leave a lot to be desired. I once disappeared on a new BMW chasing me on the downhill. I pulled over to wait for him to catch up and noticed my rotors were crackling and smoking harder than my Vietnam vet neighbor. I shone a light to discover that my rotors had turned a nice blue/purple color from the heat. Luckily nothing warped.

I was able to secure some very very cheap 2012 Mustang GT 13.2 inch rotors and calipers with pads in great condition. Im going to need new brake pads and tires within the next few months so I might as well take the opportunity to swap my 16x7 16x8 TT2 staggered setup to a square 17x8 TT2 setup

I have a couple questions for those have done the swap and are running 17 x 8 TT2 wheels. I've done plenty of research on the topic and have seen it done. By the looks of it, only a small spacer would be required to clear the caliper. My main question for the wheels is what backspace wheels did you use? The easier/cheaper wheel to get is the one with 4.81" BS

Second question. Just confirming that 65-73 v8 drum brake hubs are the same with the only difference being the bearing sets for the bigger spindle pins of later years? I am running 1970 big pin drum brake spindles. I stupidly threw out all the old drum stuff when I switched to disks but found a cheap front drum assembly for a 68. Was hoping to salvage the hubs from that assembly

Besides that, The swap seems pretty straight forward.

Use A12 and A13 bearings on the 68 hubs, same bearings as your 70 spindles use.
I recommend 17x7 front wheel with 5.25 to 4.5” backspacing on front. 225x45/17 tire fits well. 235x45 fits with rolled fenders and deeper backspacing. I have 4.7” backspace on my 66 with 17x7. Used to have 235, but steers better with 225

 

Use A12 and A13 bearings on the 68 hubs, same bearings as your 70 spindles use.
I recommend 17x7 front wheel with 4.25 to 4.5” backspacing on front. 225x45/17 tire fits well. 235x45 fits with rolled fenders and deeper backspacing. I have 4.7” backspace on my 66 with 17x7. Used to have 235, but steers better with 225

Fixed it for ya Steve.

 

Using brake hoses that would fit the 05-14 mustangs, I would just need a 3/8-24 female inverted flare -> M10 x 1.0 Male bubble to hook up to my existing lines (which I confirmed to have a 3/8-24 male inverted flare end)

Just making sure I didn't interpret the pictures in the mustang steve instructions wrong

 

@Nailbender this might be of interest to you

Update: I was able to acquire a set of 17x8 Torq thrust 2 4.81 BS I then set the rotor and caliper into the wheel to check fitment

No interference anywhere. The fit is close but no touching. Hopefully the wheel weights wont interfere. There is a small space for them to fit in pic 2.

Ill post more updates on the fit when I get back up and running . So far it looks like it will work

 

Good luck with that, I hope it works out for you! You have to allow some room for "Flex". A good tech on a modern tire machine can balance wheels with the weights along the rear edge of the wheel.

 

FWIW, unless you're on a race track or you have crap pads (note: EBC are very sensitive to proper break in), it's very unlikely that you are fading your brakes. FWIW, I've tried EBC red and green and have disliked both. I've been called a brake pad diva before.

Swapping for bigger brakes because they're cool is a valid reason. But "I fade my disc brakes on the street", isn't. Also big brakes where they're not needed actually makes you slower.

The easiest way to know what temperature your brakes are seeing is to use rotor temp paint.

I've found this paint to be hard to tell the difference between the various shades, but it does go low enough for what you're doing.

Amazon.com

Better yet would be to put together a set like this one taylored to street car temps. McMaster sells individual temp indicating paints.

Racetech 3 Color Brake Temperature Paint Kit - Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies

Know the Temp that your system is operating at with this 3 color paint kit. Three different paints that change color at three different temps.

www.pegasusautoracing.com

Measuring and knowing isn't as cool as big brakes. But it does make you faster.

 

FWIW, unless you're on a race track or you have crap pads (note: EBC are very sensitive to proper break in), it's very unlikely that you are fading your brakes. FWIW, I've tried EBC red and green and have disliked both. I've been called a brake pad diva before.

Swapping for bigger brakes because they're cool is a valid reason. But "I fade my disc brakes on the street", isn't. Also big brakes where they're not needed actually makes you slower.

The easiest way to know what temperature your brakes are seeing is to use rotor temp paint.

I've found this paint to be hard to tell the difference between the various shades, but it does go low enough for what you're doing.

http://[URL]https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Brake-Temp-Paint-fl/dp/B000UZEI6C

[/URL]

Better yet would be to put together a set like this one taylored to street car temps. McMaster sells individual temp indicating paints.

Racetech 3 Color Brake Temperature Paint Kit - Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies

Know the Temp that your system is operating at with this 3 color paint kit. Three different paints that change color at three different temps.

www.pegasusautoracing.com

Measuring and knowing isn't as cool as big brakes. But it does make you faster.

No need for paint when the Ive had the brakes smoking with the rotors coming down from a glow leaving blue discoloration across the entire rotor (wish I took a picture). Yes I follow proper EBC pad brake in procedures. This has been with both EBC red and yellow pads. Dont get me wrong I love EBC pads. The brakes would work perfectly fine once everything was cooled down. I believe this is a matter of the rotors size(mass) as well as other goofy design choices that led to them not wanting to dissipate heat as efficiently as a more modern rotor designed with more tests and computer simulations.

and yes partly because big brakes do look very cool

 

No need for paint when the Ive had the brakes smoking with the rotors coming down from a glow leaving blue discoloration across the entire rotor (wish I took a picture).

If this is the case, it's not because you're putting that level of demand on your brakes. I've raced at the most demanding circuits in America for brakes (like Road America), and I can tell you from first hand experience you're not getting rotors that hot on the street. Are you doing 150 to 50 braking events 3 times every two minutes? Because that's the sort of load you'd need to create to get properly functioning '65 Mustang brakes that hot.

Unless you're running original KH rotors, you have a modern vent design.

Oh, please fill us in on this comment above.
At first glance it seems like everyone's favorite "there's never enough power," which is a complete crap statement.

Nope just simple physics. Bigger brakes means greater rotating mass (to both accelerate and decelerate) as well as increased unspring weights.

How much slower? Consider this, a carbon brake option (whose advantage is weight) on most cars is a $8-12k. Just to drop a few lbs at each corner. Consider how much money race teams spend for lighter weight wheels. 100% of race engineers will tell you that it's worth every dime.

 

If this is the case, it's not because you're putting that level of demand on your brakes. I've raced at the most demanding circuits in America for brakes (like Road America), and I can tell you from first hand experience you're not getting rotors that hot on the street. Are you doing 150 to 50 braking events 3 times every two minutes? Because that's the sort of load you'd need to create to get properly functioning '65 Mustang brakes that hot.

Unless you're running original KH rotors, you have a modern vent design.



Nope just simple physics. Bigger brakes means greater rotating mass (to both accelerate and decelerate) as well as increased unspring weights.

How much slower? Consider this, a carbon brake option (whose advantage is weight) on most cars is a $8-12k. Just to drop a few lbs at each corner. Consider how much money race teams spend for lighter weight wheels. 100% of race engineers will tell you that it's worth every dime.

Your response is not very convincing because the minuscule amount of increased hp to accelerate/decelerate something like a 1” larger/1/2” wider rotor is not worth talking about compared to the ability to go far deeper into corners, time after time, thereby maintaining higher average lap speed. It is worth mentioning that that larger/wider rotor will likely last longer, is more likely more thermally stable and less likely to be a
“magnet” for the formation of cementite. (a definite advantage of carbon fiber if you’re of that group and financial ability)

BTW, your 65/66 Mustang rotor would be way over it’s head long before the usage cycling you suggest.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

I dont give a toss if you're convinced. Facts are facts, if you believe them or not.

Honestly, I wrote a dissertation and deleted it. This isn't worth my time.

 

@GeoffTheGiraffe
Did you ever get this working? I'm currently shopping for new rotors and pads as I'm still using the stuff from the donor car. I wanted to make sure they would fit before I upgraded.

I think I'm sold on the RedStuff pads but am looking for a rotor recommendation. I'm not sure I need slots, dimples, or holes, just smooth.

When I initially did this, I found quite a few who were running the 13.2" GT brakes on the MustangSteve forum. As has been stated here, the TT2's require small spacers, some machining on the back side of the wheels, or grinding the calipers slightly. I chose the spacers. Other wheels would not have issues.

 

@GeoffTheGiraffe
Did you ever get this working? I'm currently shopping for new rotors and pads as I'm still using the stuff from the donor car. I wanted to make sure they would fit before I upgraded.

I think I'm sold on the RedStuff pads but am looking for a rotor recommendation. I'm not sure I need slots, dimples, or holes, just smooth.

When I initially did this, I found quite a few who were running the 13.2" GT brakes on the MustangSteve forum. As has been stated here, the TT2's require small spacers, some machining on the back side of the wheels, or grinding the calipers slightly. I chose the spacers. Other wheels would not have issues.


View attachment 955911

I went with yellow stuff pads and OEM rotors since they where still good. Not sure what I'll use once I chew through these though.

Yep I have been running this setup since June with just 5/16 spacers on the front. No issues with the caliper hitting the wheel or ripping any wheel weights. This car has seen plenty of lateral loads since getting up and running.

I absolutely cant get them hot like the original k/h 4 pistons. Works perfect for a car that lives in the mountains

What brand spacers are you using on the front? I need some tighter fitting spacers as mine have a fair bit of wobble in them and I'd like to avoid future vibrations (none currently)