The guy who owns the company that makes it is local. He's given me tons of literature on it and will be speaking at our local Mustang club meeting in August. I've never used it but I've heard good things about it (in addition to the sales pitch from the owner.)

 

I don't have experience with it but have read on 'oil discussion' forums that STP for 4cyl's has enough ZDDP in it to keep our flat tappets safe as an alternative.
They suggest using one wt. lower oil with the STP, ie. instead of 10W40 use 10W30+STP and it will thicken to 10W40.
Jon

 

I have 6 bottles at home and will use it when I get my car running again.

 

I think that the biggest mistake people make is using 20w-50 to break in an engine, this in my opinion contributes as much if not more than wether they use zddp additive or not. I always use 76 custom 30wt oil, with a bottle of Crane Cams additive or STP.

The reason is that with a fresh engine that is only being run at 2000 rpm's, with a cold startup, and prelubing done by a drill, oil circulation and pressure is not going to be near the level of a 30wt oil. And the 76 custom 30wt is designed with high zinc and is specifically for pre-84 cars. I use this oil, Isky rev lube on the cam and valvetrain, and I have never never had a camshaft go bad or wear prematurely.

 

I don't know about this Zinc in the oil. But I believe the next time I change oil in my Mustang I am going to put in Amsoil 10-30. I have found out, after much studying etc, that they have an oil that has the correct amount of zinc in it.

I have not had any problems but I hope not to have any problems.

I also go to the "oil discussion" forum and that is what got me started on this zinc thing. It just seems to me that rather than mixing it myself why not get the zinc already mixed in the oil.

 

Well in my opinion, you should change the oil after 2 hours of total break in time, then you can run whatever oil you want, I usually run the 76 for break in w/additive, then I use Q horsepower 10w-40 for the engines life.

After break in, if break in is performed properly I see no use for additives of any kind to the oil. But like I said, break in must be performed correctly, I think you will notice alot of engines with burnt cams are using the wrong oil, re-using old lifters, improper lobe lubrication, and are home built engines.

Besides, using 8 dollar a quart 20w-50 racing oil when you can use some stp and a 20 buck case of 30wt is just wasteful to me, but proper parts and preperation are the key to engine durability.

 

I have 6 bottles at home and will use it when I get my car running again.

Just the guy i was looking for, can i buy you a bottle ! :shrug:

 

Unfortunately, my old cam disagrees with you:

http://mach1.classic-mustang.net/misc/bad_cam.jpg

This cam had 66k miles on it. I had switched to Mobile 1 Synthetic about 5k miles before it went flat.

I'm now more than willing to pay for the good oil, like Royal Purple.

 

Well like I said, I use Q synthetics by Quaker State, so I can't comment on results with Mobil 1 since I have no experience with it. But I just apply to the belief that if you use a quality oil, if the cam was broken in properly, that lobe failures should not occur, additive package or not.

But I think there are alot more things to consider, lifter bore alignment problems or core shift over the life of the engine. An oil that doesn't dissapte heat well and has bad shearing qualities, which may be the problem with Mobil 1. And improper camshaft install and break in procedure.

 

There is so much information / misinformation / tribal knowledge out there that I don't know what to believe about oils. From what I've read and tend to believe the oils formulated for older (high mileage) engines still have an adequate amount of ZDDP in them. I guess because the older, high mileage engines still require it and for the most part, don't have catalytic converters.

That being said I do use ZDDP in the Mach and all I can vouch for is that it doesn't seem to hurt anything. Of course there is absolutely no way to tell you if it's because of the ZDDP or not. Rather like promising that you won't get hit by a meteorite if you sit on a certain chair. It can only be negatively proven.
Rich (not a self proclaimed expert)

 

I save my engines with Lucas Oil Treatment.Been using it street & strip for years.

 

Rather like promising that you won't get hit by a meteorite if you sit on a certain chair. It can only be negatively proven.

Although, if a certain chair keeps getting hit by a meteorite, it might be prudent to no longer sit in it

There is a ton of conflicting information out there, and I, for one, ignored it all until it happened to me. Can I say my wiped cam lobe was because of the oil? No. Can anyone say that it wasn't? No. To me it's more of a cause and effect scenario. My engine, which was a virgin block when we rebuilt it, ran fine for over 50k miles, had the cam broke in correctly, doesn't have wallowed out lifter bores, or any of the other things that non-believers want to blame the cam lobe failures on. I then switched to oils to Mobile 1 Synthetic. Within 5-6k miles, the cam was gone. It happened quickly, when it happened.

I've run oil with the correct amounts of ZDDP since I replaced the cam, and haven't had problems since, although it's probably only been 3k miles since then as the car isn't driven as much any more.

Bottom line, IMHO, a cam replacement is way too much hassle to try and save $20 or so a year on oils that aren't designed to be run in these engines.

Other's mileage may vary

 

Unfortunately, my old cam disagrees with you:

http://mach1.classic-mustang.net/misc/bad_cam.jpg

This cam had 66k miles on it. I had switched to Mobile 1 Synthetic about 5k miles before it went flat.

I'm now more than willing to pay for the good oil, like Royal Purple.

here we go again..... sorry about the ruined cam, I've been using Mobil 1 15w-50 for 23,000 miles over the past 6 years, no wear, no leaks, and no problems.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_15W-50_.aspx

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English...SA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Oil_for_Vehicles_Mechanical_Pushrods.aspx

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Flat_Tappet_Engines.aspx

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/ZDDP_Levels_Classic_Cars.aspx

 

When I bought my '02 M5, the guy had been using Royal Purple. I would go through a quart of it about once every 3 weeks and would get blow-by/smoke when I drove it hard (speckles of oil all over the back of the car.) Changed to Castrol TWS 10W60 and have only had to top up the oil once in the past 6 months. I don't know if I would classify Royal Purple as "good oil." At least not when it comes to the M5.

Back on-topic though... I have never paid attention to ZDDP in oils and have always just used basic 10W30 engine oil in the vintage cars. Always use straight SAE30 for break-in and then change the oil/filter after a couple hundred miles with maybe Castrol or Penzoil 10W30. Well, just today I ended up with a collapsed lifter on the '68 GT350. Unfortunately, the lifter collapsing caused the rocker to chew away at the valve stem. Cylinder head had to come off this evening.

Now I am considering searching out oils with ZDDP. Something has to give here. That is the second lifter that has collapsed. The engine is built too, it's the original 302 with a 331 stroker kit. Screw-in rocker studs, guide plates and roller tip rocker arms. 289 K code cam profile for hydraulic lifters.

 

JohnPro - isn't Royal Purple synthetic? How is this different than Mobile 1 synthetic? Also what grade do you use?

Thanks

 

I save my engines with Lucas Oil Treatment.Been using it street & strip for years.

As do I , but as said before, this mechanic (who is a local go-to-guy in the hot rod car circle)said this is the best way to go, again, I.H.O., I have it in now, but just checking on everyone's thoughts , good or bad.

 

Brad Penn racing oil. It has all of the correct additives for our engines and it has an amazing shear strength.

See: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html and

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=367300&page=2 (Warning: This thread is around 50 pages long!)

For details on what a high performance oil should be capable of.

 

I am just not a believer in the ZDDP hype, let me clarify by saying that while I do believe an additive with good zinc, sulfur, etc. content is essential along with a good 30wt oil for break in. An good synthetic oil that has good anti-shear qualities and ability to efficiently disperse heat is vastly more important imo than additive or mineral concentrations in the oil.

But I also know that the oil subject is based on experience and brand loyalty. Needless to say people use and reccomend what they know and trust, so it is hard to get an unbiased opinion. But I will say that I cannot disagree with any of the other suggestions as I have not tried them for myself, as I said, we go with our experiences.

 

Just put some in my car when I changed the oil. Ask me again in about 5000 miles.That should take at least 5 years.

 

I started using the ZDDPlus in my engine this spring. Prior to that, I was using Castrol 15w-40 diesel to get the wear additives needed for solid lifters. Only have about a 100 miles on it so far though.

Mark

 

As said, there is a lot of benh racing going on re. ZDDP, and I honestly don't think there's an absolute answer out there.
There were several SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) papers that back in the day found 1200 ppm concentrations of ZDDP in the oil helped cam wear, especially with higher contact pressures. The ZDDP content was redced in favor of catalytic converter life, but was replaced with other additives that were supposed to provide the EP protection for the cams. I don't think there's enough evidence one way or the other to say whether they work as well in our cars.
That said, a bottle of ZDDPlus is about $10 from Eastwoods, and there is no information or other stories that bringing the ZDDP content up causes any harm in our engines. We put $40 plus of gas each tankful, think of it as just an operating cost, and avoid the issue.
Yes, break in is critical, but there are plenty of stories of old cams wiping under the new SM spec oils, which shouldn't be happening by anyone's thinking. For $10 each oil change, my engines get the benefit of the doubt.

Carl

 

Really good oil thread

 

I went with the Valvoline Racing oil - Not for street use when I did an oil change on the Grande and will do the same with the fastback. The six-pack of the oil does go for about $4 a quart.

 

I've been running Mobil 1 15W-50 in the 70K mile original (never rebuilt) 351C in my 73 vert for 15 years.

However, once it went SM rated I started adding the red STP to it to get the ZDDP content higher. So far so good.

My other two engines were built with roller cams just so I never had to worry about wiping cam lobes.

 

I've been running Mobil 1 15W-50 in the 70K mile original (never rebuilt) 351C in my 73 vert for 15 years.

However, once it went SM rated I started adding the red STP to it to get the ZDDP content higher. So far so good.

My other two engines were built with roller cams just so I never had to worry about wiping cam lobes.

Read the thread I posted above. He tested Mobile 1 15w50 and said the stuff with the silver cap still has decent zinc and phosphorous levels.