[tomhorn1913]

Howdy,

Been reading steering box threads for a couple hours, but haven't picked up all the details yet.

Just received a rebuilt box (rebuilder unknown), but have not yet returned my original core. Rebuilt is allegedly a match for my HCC-AN box. Rebuilt is a 5-turn unit with no detectable slop (I'm impressed, as I've never touched steering on a 60s vehicle with less than 10 years of abuse already inflicted). I have not opened this box to check the grease level yet, but here is my concern. At almost the exact midpoint (2.5 turns), I can feel a slight bump or drag. The closest thing I can compare it to would be a lightly loaded spring detent. It doesn't interfere with turning the shaft, but it is clearly discernible. Almost as if someone wanted to indicate to a blind driver that his steering wheel was pointed straight ahead...

I noted multiple warnings about the adjusting screw being turned too tight, & I read Dan's observation that 5-turn boxes seem to have a higher wear rate. However, I found nothing like my particular quirk. Personal insight, or expert opinion would be VERY helpful.

Much obliged,
Matt

 

[zray]

the Ford shop manual gives the complete procedure for adjusting the box. Pretty easy since you have the box out of the car. You will need an inch / pound torque wrench.

Personally, I would not install a box that had any notch-y feel at any spot in the rotation. If the correct adjustment procedure does not eliminate the problem my next step would be to box it up and send it to Chock.

Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering


Z.

 

[qbui]

You should contact the person who did the rebuilding. Probably don't recommend opening the rebuilt box either because you will need to adjust the tension screw to the correct inch#. You can also send Dan @CHOCKostang to ask even if he didn't do the rebuilding.

 

[tomhorn1913]

Thanks for the replies.

I will see if anyone has differing opinions, but you are pushing me in the direction I was already inclined. Barring any reasonable explanation for the hiccup in the shaft rotation, I'll just return the rebuilt box & send my original to Dan. It's loose as a goose, so I hope it's not beyond redemption.

Thanks again,
Matt

 

[22GT]

It is totally normal for the sector gears to be tighter at the center of travel. They are made that way. You could check the preloads, if you have an inch-pound torque wrench.

 

[zray]

It is totally normal for the sector gears to be tighter at the center of travel. They are made that way. You could check the preloads, if you have an inch-pound torque wrench.

a slight tighter yes, a detent, no.


Z

 

[awhtx]

Maybe the OP is exaggerating the condition. With the pitman arm disconnected there is a very noticeable and distinct "tightness" at the center as the steering wheel is turned from lock-to-lock. The rotation of the steering wheel will be smooth all the way through but it will require a slight bit more torque (5 inch/pound increase) to turn through the center. Any "notchy" feeling in the rotation is not normal.

 

[CHOCK]

This is a great question about steering boxes.
Once rebuilt, there will indeed have "Drag" at center. The proper amount is 10 Inch Pounds for all boxes but the SMB F and the HCC AX Boxes which will be 15 Inch Pounds.
Now the difficult part--Will this "Drag" be totally smooth? Have some notchy feel? Yes Many, Could be both.
When the sector shaft is adjusted further in the rack it is entered into all new metal on the rack, metal that will be slightly higher than the wear from years of use.
Pushing the sector into this new metal will need a break in. The set of 10", or 15" sometimes is smooth, then it can have a little notchy feel to it.
Once this box is bolted it, Steering wheel on, it will not be distinguishable at all.
Once the box has a few miles on it, I'm sure it is totally gone.
Now what the poster has---I can not relate to his because I can't feel it.

Dan

 

[tomhorn1913]

Thanks Dan,

I believe you are spot-on. Not being familiar with the internal functions of the steering box, I was hesitant, but your explanation makes perfect sense. New metal, not yet mated with a previously married surface sounds like what I'm feeling. Not a clunk, not a flat spot - just a slight catch, like riding over the ridge at the top of the cylinder of a high mileage engine block. Funny, though - I didn't detect the 'noticeable and distinct "tightness" at the center' of the shaft rotation. Perhaps awhtx is exaggerating the condition?

I've only got $100 into this rebuilt box, so I'll take a chance and run it. I don't have the Ford service manual - can anyone post a link to the adjustment procedure for a non-power steering box?

Dan, two questions. How much is a good core box worth (this is a Falcon box, if it makes any difference)? And, how do I determine if it is any good? My original box has a LOT of free play, but I haven't opened it up yet. The rebuilder charged a $150 deposit, but if this box is a good candidate for a rebuild, does it behoove me to pay the buck-&-a-half, & keep this core?

Thanks for all the input, guys,
Matt

 

[zray]

. I don't have the Ford service manual ......"

Amazon.com or the usual Mustang vendors will be glad to help you out with that invaluable resource. You will never regret the purchase. For less than $50 you will be able to save yourself countless hours and hundreds of dollars by having the best source of accurate information of all things Mustang.

FYI, the Clymer and Haynes manuals are not a substitute for the Ford published manual.

Z

 

[tomhorn1913]

Thanks Z,

I didn't realize the factory manuals were still in print.

I'm on it,
Matt

 

[LeeFred]

I would leave the newly rebuilt box alone, install it, and see how it works for you. Your HCC-AN box has a shaft that is 1 7/8" shorter than the later ones that were installed in Mustangs and Fairlanes. I couldn't tell you if it would bolt in to a 65/66 Mustang.

 

[tomhorn1913]

That's OK,

As long as it fits in my '64 Sprint, I'll be fine. Unfortunately, the Falcon forums don't have quite the wealth of information as their more popular cousins, so I hang out over here, too. Hence my question to Dan, whether the (I suspect) less-frequently encountered short-shaft box might have some value, if it is a serviceable core.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[GT289]

I've only got $100 into this rebuilt box, so I'll take a chance and run it. I don't have the Ford service manual - can anyone post a link to the adjustment procedure for a non-power steering box?

Dan, two questions. How much is a good core box worth (this is a Falcon box, if it makes any difference)? And, how do I determine if it is any good? My original box has a LOT of free play, but I haven't opened it up yet. The rebuilder charged a $150 deposit, but if this box is a good candidate for a rebuild, does it behoove me to pay the buck-&-a-half, & keep this core?

Thanks for all the input, guys,
Matt

Don't have a link but the adjustment procedure is in the shop manual.

A Falcon unit is NOT the same core box....... it will not physically fit a Mustang.
(I found that out after buying a NOS one at a swap meet about 25 years ago)
I'm willing to bet some of the inner pieces are the same. I'd guess the sector
shaft and worm gear shaft are probably different though......

A Falcon box would be more of a rarity compared to a Mustang unit.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

[tomhorn1913]

Exactly my thought,

Just don't know know if it's worth $150 to hold onto it.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[CHOCK]

Little delinquent in answering--Our Rural internet took a Dump.
Anyway the value.
We have a old Farm wagon of worn out boxes--Various ones. I would suspect a total box is MAYBE 30 cents at the shredder.
Now I have one good 65 AN Box, I want $325.00 out of it.
Where the posters box fits in here---????
5 Turn AN Boxes wear much fast than the AZ Box.
The Difference between a 5 Turn Mustang AT Box, and a 5 Turn Falcon AN Box --Only difference is length of shaft with the C3DR cases. The C3OR cases are a different animal. FORD Mixed up the Fairlane-BIGGER cases, with the 63 64 V8 Falcons. WHY? No Body know why they used a Falcon case, then a Fairlane case. Had to be 60's Flower Children, LSD, Free thinking.
GOOD Falcon boxes are indeed rarer, difficult to get.

 

[tomhorn1913]

Dan,

Thanks for the insight. Lots of details, & as you point out in the world of mass-production randomness, they didn't put this info in books - you gotta spend a lot of time getting your hands dirty to glean this knowledge! Having said that, I'll ask: Is there any way to determine whether a box is worn out with special tools? Can a boob with ordinary measuring tools, or "micrometer eyes" - as my buddy used to refer to people who assess used brake rotors at swap meets - make an accurate determination of a box that is worth rebuilding?

I really appreciate the education you're giving us here.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[GT289]

Dan,

Thanks for the insight. Lots of details, & as you point out in the world of mass-production randomness, they didn't put this info in books - you gotta spend a lot of time getting your hands dirty to glean this knowledge! Having said that, I'll ask: Is there any way to determine whether a box is worn out with special tools? Can a boob with ordinary measuring tools, or "micrometer eyes" - as my buddy used to refer to people who assess used brake rotors at swap meets - make an accurate determination of a box that is worth rebuilding?

I really appreciate the education you're giving us here.

Thanks,
Matt

Dan will have his own specific comments to share I'm sure but
with boxes, we never truly knew the quality of what we were
getting until it was apart. It's garbage in, garbage out with them
as far as we were concerned. Our standards were pretty high
because we were blueprinting them. (sector bearings to honed
sector bushings, worm block to sector teeth roughness addressed,
worm shaft roughness addressed and other things done we're not
specifically mentioning in this forum. The boxes we did back in the
day are as close to stock as the space shuttle is to a Cessna)

Here's the issue, without opening the box you can't access carnage
such as water entry, etc. (Grease packs to the interior corners of the
box, water gets in, game over)

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

[CHOCK]

Tom,

Look at GT289 response--No way could I explain it better.
Sir the opening of the box, the measuring, the "Feel" for the components are not something I learned overnite.
With help from Roger Rodes, and Stanger (Randy Meir) , I figured out how to do this in my retirement.
Dan

 

[Flade]

Little delinquent in answering--Our Rural internet took a Dump.
Anyway the value.
We have a old Farm wagon of worn out boxes--Various ones. I would suspect a total box is MAYBE 30 cents at the shredder.
Now I have one good 65 AN Box, I want $325.00 out of it.
Where the posters box fits in here---????
5 Turn AN Boxes wear much fast than the AZ Box.
The Difference between a 5 Turn Mustang AT Box, and a 5 Turn Falcon AN Box --Only difference is length of shaft with the C3DR cases. The C3OR cases are a different animal. FORD Mixed up the Fairlane-BIGGER cases, with the 63 64 V8 Falcons. WHY? No Body know why they used a Falcon case, then a Fairlane case. Had to be 60's Flower Children, LSD, Free thinking.
GOOD Falcon boxes are indeed rarer, difficult to get.

Dan,

Glad have you back. I sent you a PM last week, but didn’t hear back, now I know why. I have a 65 manual box I need to send you next week. What’s the best (most cost effective) way to ship? What’s the current price of a rebuild?