People think a cable or hydraulic clutch is groovy, and OE is for fuddy-duddies.

The T5 works perfectly with the stock linkage.

Really, it's about looking cool at cruise night.

 

are you talking about the big loop in your engine compartment looking cool?
iowa

 

The six cylinder bars aren't available in repro, that might be part of the reason. I agree with you, the stock Z-bar setup is preferable if you've got all the parts and they work right.

 

My car is currently an automatic so I'm going to have to find/purchase parts no matter which path I take. Is it harder to find all the parts for z bar? Thanks!

 

I've always had the original Z bar in my car, and it works just fine. Now if someone puts a heavier duty clutch in their car, the stock Z bar can bend (it is a bell crank linkage, after all) with the added stress. Mine in fact is bent just slightly but not enough to warrant replacement. If Z bar is bent too much it alters the clutch linkage geometry and can result in premature wearout of clutch rod bushings, clutch chatter, improper release, extra effort, increase wear on the delrin bushings in the clutch frame support, etc.
Add to this that the repro Z bars are reputed to be not as strong as the originals, and you then have the scenario where some PO in the distant past put a Centerforce or similar clutch in his hot rodded Stang, bent the Z bar, and when he is done having his fun in the car, he later on sells the car. New owner replaces bent Z bar with the repro, it bends too, he gets frustrated and says - I need a cable clutch.

 

If all the pivots and attaching points are good, and the system properly adjusted and lubricated, the stock setup works pretty well.

 

To add onto all of this good info above, the stock linkage can be modified, pretty easily, to perform quite well. Ball-joint rod ends can be used on threaded rods, in place of the stock clutch rods. John @ Opentracker has a roller-bearing Z-bar support he's posted on here about, also. You can also take a 1/8" gusset plate and weld it onto the Z-bar to make it quite strong.

 

You can also take a 1/8" gusset plate and weld it onto the Z-bar to make it quite strong.

IIRC, one of the equalizers from G/N comes that way.

 

I'm considering the C4 to T5 swap in my 66. I've been doing a lot of internet research (naturally) and the clutch system discussion seems to be mostly clutch cable or hydraulic clutch. Why no love for the z bar?

The Z-bar uses a pushing motion on the clutch fork towards the rear of the car to disengage the pressure plate. This is how the 3/4 speed bellhousings work. The T5 bellhousing and clutch fork requires the fork to move towards the front of the car to disengage the pressure plate.

If you swap from a 3 or 4 speed to a T5, then it's easier/makes more economical sense to stick with the Z-bar. You can reuse the 3/4 speed bellhousing and clutch fork. If you swap from an auto to a T5, most people go with a cable or hydraulic because they're using the T5 bellhousing. The cable and hydraulic setup are easier to utilize for the pulling motion the T5 bell requires.

 

There is a small, inexpensive adapter that installs the 65-73 release lever fulcrum in the T5 bellhousing, the T5 bell does not 'require' a cable. Really. It can even be an advantage, since the T5 bell adapter costs WAY less than the T5 mounting plate to attach the T5 to the early bell. If you're getting a deal on a junkyard bell, you can save a nice chunk of cash.

 

I am using the cable on my '65 project for several reasons. I am installing a 351W with headers and the cable gives a lot more room for what is already a real tight installation. It also makes the T-5 installation a little easier.

 

My 66 Fastback has the following setup:
1. Original Z-bar and linkage
2. T5 and T5 bellhousing (adapted for original clutch fork).
3. Centerforce Dual Friction clutch.
4. Original clutch fork and throwout bearing.
5. Hooker Competition long tube headers (no install problems).

There were two issues. Because the HD Centerforce diaphram clutch actually requires less pedal pressure (less strain on the Z-bar too) than the original type clutch, I ended up removing the underdash "assist" spring so that the clutch pedal will not "stick to the floor" at very high rpms. The other problem was that there was no clutch fork rubber boot available for the original type fork in a T5 bellhousing. I ended up fabricating one from rubber stock.

 

The other problem was that there was no clutch fork rubber boot available for the original type fork in a T5 bellhousing. I ended up fabricating one from rubber stock.

There used to be, it was a truck part that Glazier/Nolan used for the T5 bell. Naturally, Ford discontinued it a couple years ago.

 

I also converted from a C4 to a WR Toploader. I stock with the stock linkage...couldn't really install a cable with the 4 speed bellhousing. All parts are available new so there's no reason hunting for used, worn out linkage. I used rod ends on my stuff along with sealed roller bearings on the clutch/brake support. Here's a picture showing the stock linkage to the linkage I made. I also ditched the big spring on the clutch pedal under the dash.

 

I also converted from a C4 to a WR Toploader. I stock with the stock linkage...couldn't really install a cable with the 4 speed bellhousing. All parts are available new so there's no reason hunting for used, worn out linkage. I used rod ends on my stuff along with sealed roller bearings on the clutch/brake support. Here's a picture showing the stock linkage to the linkage I made. I also ditched the big spring on the clutch pedal under the dash.

 

My opinion is that a hydraulic clutch has no feel. They are also more expensive to repair.

My mechanical clutch is fine.

 

Thanks for the reply! Good info.

 

Alright - so I have a 65 (I6 - 3 spd car) that I have pulled the I6 and 3 spd out of and will be putting in a 302 roller and T5. The thought never even occurred to me until reading this thread - but is the Z-Bar different between the I6 and V8 cars?
I assumed they were the same because there is only the one listing for the Z-bar in NPD.

I plan to use the Z-bar set up with the T5 housing and adaptor.

 

The 6 cylinder equalizer is not available new. If you have the later 5.0, it lacks the mounting point for the equalizer, and an additional bracket, not too expensive, is needed to attach to the engine.

 

I always hated my z bar

I pulled mine for 2 reasons, one was true one turned out to be false.

First, installing a Z bar on my car with short headers and a 351 which I believe is no different from a 302 from underneath, SUCKED. I cursed and hated life putting the two bolts in that hold the Z bar brace in place. I hated it so much that I did not check them regularly and ended up losing a bolt and subsequently the clutch in a valley in Upstate New York. Lost the plastic spacers and so had a heck of a time kludging it to get home. Never having to deal with those bolts that face upwards on the frame with a motor and headers installed was reason enough for me.

Now - I had an unrealistic expectation that the clutch would push easier with less friction from a hydraulic clutch. This was essentially false. Since I worked out the leverages to be the same there was not as much friction as I thought. I did get a much much smother clutch (which I did not expect) and the action is more linear since the lever arms are not changing. The clutch force was not dramatically different.

Life around my headers is significantly better with out the Zbar.

M

 

Alright - I am still a little unclear (perhaps I am just dense) but I want to be sure - the 6 cylinder Z-bar will not work with a V8, right?

(go ahead and laugh at me, but I want to be sure...)

And yes - it is a late model 5.0 without the mounting point so I plan to get the additional brackets - thanks!

 

Alright - I am still a little unclear (perhaps I am just dense) but I want to be sure - the 6 cylinder Z-bar will not work with a V8, right?

A stock, unmodified, 6-cylinder Z-bar will not work on a V8.

 

First, installing a Z bar on my car with short headers and a 351 which I believe is no different from a 302 from underneath, SUCKED. I cursed and hated life putting the two bolts in that hold the Z bar brace in place.
Last summer I installed the equalizer in a 68 GT500 with the engine and brakes already installed, so I don't feel sorry for you.

I hated it so much that I did not check them regularly and ended up losing a bolt and subsequently the clutch in a valley in Upstate New York.
Strange, I have several hundred thousand miles on mine and these bolts have never come loose.

Lost the plastic spacers and so had a heck of a time kludging it to get home. Never having to deal with those bolts that face upwards on the frame with a motor and headers installed was reason enough for me.
A friend of mine once broke a clutch pushrod about 25 miles from home. I drove down and swapped cars with him, and drove his home. Managed to get away with only 5 or 6 stops, did the rest by matching the rpm/speed. Try it sometime, it's doable.

 

First, installing a Z bar on my car with short headers and a 351 which I believe is no different from a 302 from underneath, SUCKED. I cursed and hated life putting the two bolts in that hold the Z bar brace in place.
Last summer I installed the equalizer in a 68 GT500 with the engine and brakes already installed, so I don't feel sorry for you.

I hated it so much that I did not check them regularly and ended up losing a bolt and subsequently the clutch in a valley in Upstate New York.
Strange, I have several hundred thousand miles on mine and these bolts have never come loose.

Lost the plastic spacers and so had a heck of a time kludging it to get home. Never having to deal with those bolts that face upwards on the frame with a motor and headers installed was reason enough for me.
A friend of mine once broke a clutch pushrod about 25 miles from home. I drove down and swapped cars with him, and drove his home. Managed to get away with only 5 or 6 stops, did the rest by matching the rpm/speed. Try it sometime, it's doable.

1) Ok Now I feel sorry for you...
2) Wierd huh - new lockwashers (always)
3) What I didn't say was it broke down completely coincidentally right in front of a friend's house so I had a place to kludge it together. What surprised/shocked me is that my stock starter that barely gets the 10.5:1 motor over the hump started the car in reverse to get out of the street. I have an old triumph without synchro in 1st which was my first car so I can drive sans synchro/clutch with the best!!!

Cheers 22...

M

 

i like to roll start my car when i stalls. when its cold and doesnt want to run right sometimes it stalls so when it does i am usualy rolling and let the clutch out to hard so i just let the clutch out hard and then push it back in and that starts it right back up. when my dad was in college the battery died in the mustang and he didnt have the money to replace it so he drove it for about a year starting it like that. he always parked on a hill and flinstoned the car going.

 

Im happy with the Z-bar and T-5 in my 66.
I have a 67 V8 Z-Bar if anyone wants it.

 

I did a T5 swap using the z bar 10 years ago. It worked ok, but seemed to chatter a lot. I recently installed the Mustang Steve cable clutch with the quadrant on top of the clutch pedal. This setup works great. Its a very smooth operation a uses a late model cable that can be easily replaced.

 

Has anyone used the fulcrum adapter posted above? Does the T5 bellhousing need to be drilled to use this? That seems better than using the trans adapter......