Doesn’t sound right that a rebuild is more expensive then a replacement unless it totally trashed. I paid $600 Cdn. To have my toploader rebuilt by a reputable shop. That’s $475 US parts and labor in.

 

I'd go with a 5 speed T5 before I'd spend $1500-$2500 on a 4 speed Toploader. You will need an adapter plate and a crossmember mount to swap to the T5. You can buy rebuilt T5's for $500-$750 all day long.

 

T5 swap isn’t really an option, I really want that classic 4 speed. I am not trying to be all original but I do want period correct.

 

Just don't shift the T5 into 5th (OD) if you want a 4 speed!
You can buy a shift handle for the T5 that looks exactly like a Ford shifter for the T10/Toploader. And who's going to crawl under your car to verify the transmission?

 

What happened that you think trans is trashed? Gears grinding or what? 4-spd are pretty tough and you really have to beat on them unless it was already trashed to begin with, could it be a clutch or just linkage adjustment?

 

It drove ok for a while, then had some really bad shaking starting from a stop, then It wouldn’t go, kept trying to stall the engine. Shop dropped the trans, opened it up, took it to AAMCO. Will hopefully get more details tomorrow.

Good gosh I would think that there has to be some type of old-school shop in the Atlanta area that would work on the top-loader and not a transmission shop chain. At the very least I know there used to be a bunch of good old southern racing boys from the Dawsonville area that used to run Fords when they were racing.

I would start doing some local area searching if sending out to David Kee is not an option. Find a local Mustang/Car Club and talk with some of their members as a good starting point.

Best of luck

John

Problem there is my lack of free time and infinite abundance of impatience. And probably the fact that the shop is not going to store my car indefinitely and without a transmission it is not getting up my driveway. I may end up sending it to David Kee, will try to find time to give him a call tomorrow.

 

Good gosh I would think that there has to be some type of old-school shop in the Atlanta area that would work on the top-loader and not a transmission shop chain. At the very least I know there used to be a bunch of good old southern racing boys from the Dawsonville area that used to run Fords when they were racing.

I would start doing some local area searching if sending out to David Kee is not an option. Find a local Mustang/Car Club and talk with some of their members as a good starting point.

Best of luck

John

 

"Mustangs Unlimited" is located just outside Atlanta. Call them and ask for their recommendation on how to find a local shop that works on classic transmissions.

 

Time out! As said the TRoploader is a really tough transmission. It is not going to fail in normal driving. manual transmissions are pretty simple and durable. What you're describing is not a transmission issue but sounds more like a bad motor mount or slipping clutch. It sounds like clutch chatter. The motor mounts may be worn out or the clutch is worn out which is a consumable item. David key sell brand new Toploaders for around that $2300. Another well respected shop that has been in business longer and where David keys started is Dan Williams Toploaders in NC. He's the bench mark and probably the best.

The problem today is that knowledgeable personnel are substituted for less knowledgeable (cheaper) personnel that read off a scripted flow chart.

 

The clutch is also needing replaced. I saw the mechanic at the shop spin the input shaft of the trans and it clunked and did not turn smoothly. There was metal in the gear oil. There is definitely SOME problem with the trans. How BAD it is I can only go off what the shop and AAMCO tell me. The shop is well respected and works on a lot of classics.

 

The car was supposed to be in good condition but the transmission basically gave out on the first drive. It's a 4 speed toploader.

Assuming you test drove the car before buying it, there is no way a Toploader could work perfectly on the test drive and then need $2000 worth of repairs after the first drive with you as the new owner. I don't think we're being told "the rest of the story".

 

I didn’t test drive it, it was in a different state. I paid for an inspection and was told it “shifts smoothly”. I was also told that the mechanic at the shop / dealership said the shifter bushings had been replaced, which was clearly false because 1st gear felt nearly as loose as neutral and once the trans was out it was obvious the bushings were garbage and everything in the shifter was extremely loose.

It never worked perfectly. The clutch shuddered a bit on anything other than the gentlest take off with barely any throttle and a lot of slip. The shifter was loose as hell. I could not downshift into 3rd without double clutching, even though I could into 2nd. The first “traffic speed” takeoff caused horrible banging and then it did not want to drive anymore.

I admit that I am not experienced in driving old cars, but I am very experienced in driving a manual and I did not drive it hard at all or abuse it. Didn’t even have a chance to. There were a whole host of other problems I was not expecting like carb leaking gas, thermostat leaking coolant, key not matched to door locks, quarter window not working. I believe the clutch and trans were on their last leg already when I got it and now I am just trying to figure out how to move forward.

 

sounds like you got taken a bit on the inspection unless you knew about the other issues.

Seriously though a T5 while not period correct would most likely be better and more cost effective for you in the long run.

 

As many car clubs and racers a there are around there its hard to believe no one can recommend a shop that does manual transmissions. You have it at a shop you say works on a lot a of classics and THEY don't have a recommendation? I know of a shop up here that does. NOT AAMCO. The reason AAMCO said replace it is because they don't have anyone there who actually knows how to rebuild it. Or much of anything these days, they mostly swap in "crate" transmissions that are rebuilt somewhere else. And automatics at that.

Toploaders are pretty readily inspectable. Shifter, driveshaft, crossmember, speedo cable, and four bolts are all that's holding it in the car. A motivated guy with a lift and proper tools could have it out in 15 minutes. Then unbolt the cover, dump out the grease and see what's up in there.

 

Can't speak for your neck of the woods, but up here in Detroit, AAMCO were shady and frequently hacks.

If you live the 4 speed, rebuild it. Like you, I bought my 70 Mach 1 and the trans was not right. The cost to rebuild was half or less of new. I drive 18 miles highway each way, so I upgraded to a OD. Couldn't be happier (well, if it had been cheaper I would)

 

Why do I have a feeling that someone at AAMCO saw a Toploader and dollar signs lit up in his/her eyes? "Yep, this trans is trashed...let me throw in a weaker T5, and I'll get rid of that hunk of junk Toploader for you. Trust me...I work for AAMCO!"

 

If so they will be disappointed because if I do end up replacing it I will be taking the old one home with me.

X1000!! really, find somewhere else than a chain shop--they are not your best choice. Mayb go to a cruise night,car show or car club ans find out where those guys go for trans work. Lastly, read up and learn to do a re-build your self--time might be a problem for you though. I have learned that these cars of ours are not rocket science and we can eventually do most of the work ourselves, given the time.

Problem with all of that is time. Definitely don't have the time to let the car sit at the shop while I learn and then rebuild it myself, and shows etc. haven't really seemed to kick off much around here yet. Showing up to a classic car or Mustang cruise in my Subaru WRX would probably be interesting though lol. Right now I just don't know who to ask (other than here) because I haven't had the car long enough to meet anybody and everyone I already know car-wise are Subaru guys.

For $150, the OP can get a rebuild kit from David Kee, along with a set of instructions, paint, and everything to get it back on the road...unless the gears are trashed. Even the gears aren't all that expensive, with the 4th gear/input shaft at $164 the most costly. What are the chances of all 4 gears being wasted?

That's what I was thinking too. I mean unless every single part in the trans is trashed the parts don't seem that much. Or if there is something wrong with the housing itself but I would think the mechanic at the shop would have been able to tell me that immediately, and it looked fine when I saw it, though I didn't inspect it closely or know any specifics to look for other than "hey why's there a hole here".

I'm going to hear what the guy at AAMCO has to say today, then give David Kee a call and see what he thinks based on that, and also probably tell the shop I'm not confident in AAMCO and see if they can find another place to look at it.

 

X1000!! really, find somewhere else than a chain shop--they are not your best choice. Mayb go to a cruise night,car show or car club ans find out where those guys go for trans work. Lastly, read up and learn to do a re-build your self--time might be a problem for you though. I have learned that these cars of ours are not rocket science and we can eventually do most of the work ourselves, given the time.

 

For $150, the OP can get a rebuild kit from David Kee, along with a set of instructions, paint, and everything to get it back on the road...unless the gears are trashed. Even the gears aren't all that expensive, with the 4th gear/input shaft at $164 the most costly. What are the chances of all 4 gears being wasted? It took me two days to rebuild my Toploader, and that's because I had to pull it apart twice because I forgot something early in the rebuild (don't remember what it was, but it was probably something dumb). It's a good learning experience, and the look on people's faces when you tell them you rebuilt the transmission yourself. Just don't let on how simple it really was.

 

I'm surprised you're sticking with the shop that currently has your Mustang. If I had to have my car in a shop, meaning I couldn't have it at home, then I'd prioritize on finding a better shop for Mustangs and have it towed to the better shop. A better shop would know the local businesses they trust to do transmission work assuming they farm this work out. I say this because not only would I not want to deal with AAMCO now I'd be nervous trusting the current shop with my Mustang.

 

I'm surprised you're sticking with the shop that currently has your Mustang...now I'd be nervous trusting the current shop with my Mustang.

If someone could recommend one in the area (north of Atlanta, outside the perimeter) then I'd be glad to look into it. But otherwise I would only be going off of what they put on their website, what they say on the phone, and Google / Yelp reviews, and I'd be going from semi-known to completely unknown. At least someone that I personally trust personally knows these folks and his entire family trusts all their cars, including classics, to them.

 

I was just going to post what awhtx did. Dan Williams is much closer to you than David Kee and he's great to deal with. Everytime I've spoke with Dan he's gone out of his way to explain everything I had questions about and he's very fair with this prices.

 

I agree with taking it to Dan Williams In NC . Great guy (and a real character!) - I remember buying gears from him in the 1980s (he was in FL then). His 'noon to midnight' business hours havent changed in over 35 years!

Do you know if the TL is original to your 68 or ?

I also agree with those that are recommending converting to a T5. Lighter, less expensive, overdrive, and practically plug/play. The only reason in this day/age to use a TL is if you are doing a concours resto or you absolutely need the brute strength.

Good luck
Paul

 

Tell Dan HI from his old friends from the Gold Coast Mustang Club [Lester, Doug, Jon, David, Greg] (late 1970's to early 1980's) down in South Miami-Dade. Always has been a character, glad to hear he is still active.

 

Well AAMCO quoted an absurd price of $3350 to rebuild it. I talked to Dan Williams and yes he is a character! Will be taking everything up to him on Saturday and now just hoping AAMCO doesn't try to hold my transmission hostage expecting me to pay them something.

 

Well AAMCO quoted an absurd price of $3350 to rebuild it.

They quoted you that price so that you will take it somewhere else. They don't want the job.

 

Sounds like you're making the right decision. Take it to an expert who knows these Toploaders inside and out.

 

In my experience with Fords from the 60's thru 80's I don't recall ever seeing a u-joint with inside snap rings. I would find out which style- inside or outside -the front yoke on your driveshaft uses and then go from there. And find out which size u-joint the front yoke uses. Does it have 1", 1.0625", 1.125" or 1.1875" holes for the u-joint caps? And what is the required width for that cross on the u-joint? There are a lot of specialty u-joints that have different sizes and styles on each cross but if you can stay with a standard size u-joint it will be easier to find a replacement should you need one.
My San Jose early '65 Fastback came from the factory with a 25 spline BW T10 and as I recall it uses a standard 1310 u-joint with external snap rings.

 

I need a bit more help finding some of the small parts. Pretty sure a lot of bolts etc. have gotten lost in the shuffle here. Still trying to get in touch with Bill Heeley, but I am sure I am going to need all the hardware that attaches the shifter to the transmission, and the shift lever to the shifter.

What I have found so far:

Lever to shifter: http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/Mu...-Levers/Scott-Drake-Super-Shift-Lever-Rebuild-Kit-1965-1968-Mustang-4-Speed.axd

Mounting plate: Shifter Mounting Plate 1965-1973 Mustang 4-Speed Top Loader | Shifter Mounting Hardware | Shifters, Knobs, Handles & Related | Drivetrain | Cougar | MustangsUnlimited.com

What I can't seem to find is any hardware kit to attach the shifter to the transmission itself, and each rod as well. What else do I need?

 

Dan Williams probably has everything you need.

 

Seemed like he only dealt with Hurst shifters and he said he doesn't even do that anymore since his partner passed away. He did say if I had a Hurst shifter he could mount it on there for me. I'll ask him about it next time I talk to him, though getting questions asked and directly answered is work lol.

Also plan to ask Bill Heeley about it if I can get in touch with him, which hopefully I can soon.

I'll just feel better if I have backups where I can just order the small bits that I need because I am tired of dealing with it all and want to make sure that when I drop the transmission off at the shop it's the last time I'll have to talk to them until the car is ready to go home.