Why are you hell bent on juice?

 

I don't have to have it, I will run a cable if its too much of a money pit/ clearance obstacle. I was just curious if and what the T5 guys were running.

 

Modern driveline

Hydraulic Clutch Kits, Ford - Modern Driveline

 

^^^^^ +1

 

I got a cable for mine. I've heard good things. Can't speak from experience because the engine is on a stand and the T5 is on the floor. Soon though... very soon.

 

Cable is simple and reliable.

 

Z-bar is simple, reliable and lasts forever. I did my conversion in '90 or so and the Z is still working well.

 

I used a Ron Morris Racing clutch cable kit for my T5 install. No cutting, no welding, and it operates smoother than the hydraulic clutch in my 06 subaru legacy.

 

I have the hydraulic clutch setup as in the link above. Mine is using an external slave cylinder. There are internal slave cylinder versions that go around the transmission input shaft, but I prefer the external type. If there are issues with the internal type, then you need to remove the transmission to get to it. With the external one, you can just unbolted it with ease.

I love this setup and it works with ease and is silky smooth. You get a very good mechanical advantage and I am running a performance clutch and I can press the pedal with ease using my hand.

My car is a 69 Fastback and the master cylinder is very close to the brake booster, but it does clear it fine.

I did have a cable clutch to start with when I converted my car from and automatic to a manual transmission. The cable clutch was okay and I was fairly happy with it. The problem I had was my exhaust headers were frying the cable and I could not see how this could be avoided. I tried wrapping the cable with a special heat shield cover, but it was still melting. The hydraulic system for me is better because I can route the braided pipe anywhere I want and get it well clear of the exhaust headers.

So I am not saying the cable clutch system is bad, but the above is what worked best for me. Other peoples installations will vary.

 

I'm running mustangsteve's longer cable. No issue with cable melting. Hedman full length headers. Well over 10,000 miles so far.

 

…I would like to install a hydraulic clutch but have not seen any solid parts set ups to know which one would be the right fit for my car. I recently picked up a T5 from a 92' GT with nothing on it. From what I gather I need the bell housing from 93' or older and I have also been looking at the conversion kit from Scott Drake. But they only have cable operated clutch set ups! So if you have a T5 swapped and have a hydro clutch, what set up is it? did you buy new or pirate from another car? Did you have clearance issues? Any advice appreciated. I am currently running a bone stock 289/C4 with headers in a 65 A code.

Z-bar is simple, reliable and lasts forever. I did my conversion in '90 or so and the Z is still working well.

I would (and have) run the stock linkage with the T5 transmission. Extremely reliable, and easy to install. Even an amateur hobbyist can install a T5 to replace a C4 in a day with the stock linkage. To paraphrase Pete, why are you hellbent on going non-stock?

People often site "pedal effort" as reason for conversion. The pedal effort thing is due to the use of nylon bushings on the pedal. If you put the inexpensive Drake roller pedal kit on whatever you do, it solves that completely. My first use of that was on a 69 428 CobraJet, and the result was the otherwise stock setup could be pressed by an 11 year old girl. I had one handy at the time. Certainly invites comparison to "girly men".

 

I'm with Pete and 22. I swapped in a Toploader years ago. I really didn't have too many options. But the stock linkage is like anything else. Everyone compares a worn out one with a brand new what ever. I made my own linkage with rod ends. It was cheap, easy and works silky smooth. Definitely use a bearing kit on the pedal hanger. Either the Scott Drake or the Mustang Steve's kit. I have the Mustang Steve's. It uses a lot bigger bearings and bearing cups that have to be welded on. It's a good kit to use if the old hanger is severely worn. Here's my linkage with the stock shown for comparison. The stock linkage is a known and most if not all headers are designed to work with stock. As with any modifications you have to look at the total cost. You may save some money in one area but my have to spend a lot more in another area for a custom made part to work with the cheap part.

 

I just completed a c4 to t5 conversion on my 68. I went with the G force t5 and external hydraulic clutch. If I could do it all over again I would have went with a cable or maybe even an internal hydraulic clutch. Mainly because I am running full length headers. The clutch fork bracket and slave cylinder made contact with the headers. Had to dimple the header tube, cut a corner off the fork and bend the bracket that holds the slave cylinder. I also had to mount the clutch pedal bracket a tad different than Modern Driveline instructed due to interference with the parking brake assembly. Hope this helps you a little

 

It seems cable is unanimous! Thanks for all the input, I will start looking at the cable kits a bit closer now. Although the Ford modern kit and the Z-bar kit are useful in their own right, it seems simplicity is the answer. I'll be honest, I like it when things don't break so easily, I have a sort of heavy right foot and ease of installation keeps the profanity to a minimum :grin2:. The only other concern I have now is the actual clutch. From my understanding I can use a stock style clutch as long as the flywheel is 164 tooth? Oh yea and here is the trans before and after.

 

It seems cable is unanimous!
Unanimous? Are we looking at the same thread? I would not use a cable if you paid me.

Thanks for all the input, I will start looking at the cable kits a bit closer now. Although the Ford modern kit and the Z-bar kit are useful in their own right, it seems simplicity is the answer.
So, all that drilling sawing, bolting of brackets, and welding for various cable conversions is simpler than just bolting in the stock linkage?

I'll be honest, I like it when things don't break so easily, I have a sort of heavy right foot and ease of installation keeps the profanity to a minimum :grin2:.
Dunno what your foot has to do with installing, or for that matter breaking, the clutch linkage.

The only other concern I have now is the actual clutch. From my understanding I can use a stock style clutch as long as the flywheel is 164 tooth? Oh yea and here is the trans before and after.
The number of teeth is immaterial, you need either a 157 or 164 depending on the wheel / bell / starter you use. The actual clutch is the same on either wheel.

 

It seems cable is unanimous!
Unanimous? Are we looking at the same thread? I would not use a cable if you paid me.

From what I read 3 have hydro, 1 of which said he wouldn't do it again, 3 that say linkage and 4 that say cable. So maybe not unanimous but cable wins.

Thanks for all the input, I will start looking at the cable kits a bit closer now. Although the Ford modern kit and the Z-bar kit are useful in their own right, it seems simplicity is the answer.
So, all that drilling sawing, bolting of brackets, and welding for various cable conversions is simpler than just bolting in the stock linkage?

I used a Ron Morris Racing clutch cable kit for my T5 install. No cutting, no welding, and it operates smoother than the hydraulic clutch in my 06 subaru legacy.

I'll be honest, I like it when things don't break so easily, I have a sort of heavy right foot and ease of installation keeps the profanity to a minimum :grin2:.
Dunno what your foot has to do with installing, or for that matter breaking, the clutch linkage.

Have you ever broken a clutch linkage in a race? I have. However the one Huskinhano has looks pretty sturdy.

The only other concern I have now is the actual clutch. From my understanding I can use a stock style clutch as long as the flywheel is 164 tooth? Oh yea and here is the trans before and after.
The number of teeth is immaterial, you need either a 157 or 164 depending on the wheel / bell / starter you use. The actual clutch is the same on either wheel.

I see that makes sense.

 

For a clutch - a diaphragm unit is very nice. I have an 11" and it holds great. Much lighter than three finger unit.

 

As with any modifications even if they've been done a thousand times before with no problems there is always going to be that one were something is slightly different and there will be a problem that was unforseen. Case in point. I'm putting a GT40P into my 66. I'm finishing up the swap, I hope and believe my problem areas are done. I was planning to use headers, I have a set that will work but I knew in advance I would have some problems that would take time to resolve so my plan was to install the stock exhaust manifolds for now to get the car back on the road quickly. I literally had the P motor built up with all the accessories, hoses and belts, fuel pump so I could pull the old motor and stab in the new motor in a day. That was over 2 months ago and the car is still up on the jack stands. The issue I hadn't planned on was the exhaust manifold stud and the engine Z bar adapter bracket for roller cam motors won't work together. They both occupy the same space. That meant I had to install the headers and deal with all the little problems that popped up. It's taken this long because I'm only home on weekends. I finished the exhaust last weekend welding up the collectors and exhaust. The reason I said this was to show what can happen despite how much you plan something.

I've had a Fox Mustang with a cable. I had a 87 F250 that had a hydraulic clutch as well as my DD, a ZX2 as well as my 66 with mechanical. They all work well. The reason I'm happy and love the mechanical linkage in my 66 and another is happy with the cable or hydraulic is simple. We all picked the right system for our needs. The best I can say is sit down and think of any other mods you plan on such as headers and what type and if you plan on R&P. Don't make changes that you can't resolve issues with or keep the car from running due to time. Good luck.

Lol, I never really thought about my set up being massively over built. But I guess 22GT is right. The main reason I did it was that it was cheap and easy to make. It's durable, the Heim joints probably have less friction then the nylon bushings or at least that was what I was thinking. There's no slop, it nice and tight and works very smoothly. The Heim joints were about $14 each, the rod is 3/8" cold rolled steel rod from the hardware store. Special tools consisted of a hacksaw, file and 3/8x 16 die to cut the threads. My guess with all the materials, nuts and bolts, $80?

As far as flywheels go both the 157 tooth and 164 tooth use the same clutch kits I believe. The 164 tooth weighs around 40 pounds and the 157, about 22. I would be inclined to stick with the 157 tooth since most of the hardware for either the hydraulic or cable is designed for the 157 tooth bellhousing. Even the Z bar bracket for the roller conversion if down the road you plan on a 5.0 roller motor.

 

The issue I hadn't planned on was the exhaust manifold stud and the engine Z bar adapter bracket for roller cam motors won't work together. They both occupy the same space.

Was that straight manifolds or the drop-down HP manifolds?

 

I don't like cable clutches. Old Mustang specific, modified stock linkage is a very good way to go. Especially if you are moving up from a 3 or 4 speed and already have those parts. Not so much when you have none of it.
I like hydraulic because I can/have DIY the whole thing. I'm not much on "kits" but there are those too.
I just don't like like cable clutches, never have. Had more than one Fox with a factory cable that I detested. I've no interest at ALL in copying that setup. I've had a LOT of motorcycles over the years. All cable clutches but one. And I never liked a single one of the cables. Liked the one hydro clutch but unfortunately it was attached to a Magna and I didn't care much for the rest of the bike.
One of my daily drivers has a cable clutch. It's...OK. t could be upgraded to hydro but it's one of those "It ain't broke, don't fix it" things. I've got too many projects already.
I just don't like the "feel" of a cable clutch somehow. Too much friction in the cable housing or something. Number one road bike has teflon lined clutch cable. Meh, no real difference.

 

I never have had a single problem with a Fox cable clutch. I have owned a few, worked on a bunch, and never a problem. They are problem free.

 

Yeah, the Fox cable is fine, at least on Foxes. The problem comes when people adapt them to 65-73 Mustangs. Then you get odd brackets, firewall holes, funky modified pedals, cable contact with headers, etc. The whole thing becomes very dependent on the skill of the installer.

My only reaction to the concept has been when people describe cables as "modern". The 1960 Corvair had a cable clutch.

 

My only reaction to the concept has been when people describe cables as "modern". The 1960 Corvair had a cable clutch.

My '65 Corsa did

 

Never had a Fox cable partially melt right at the edge of the firewall causing the cable to bind up to where it wears your left leg OUT in traffic? Never had aftermarket replacement cables self destruct after only a couple of days? Never had the new replacement cable stretch so much with a couple of days of use it was impossible to adjust enough to compensate? Never had a plastic clutch quadrant strip the self-adjuster teeth? Never had the quadrant split at the end and let the cable slip through? Never bought a fancy billet quadrant eliminator setup and then had to take it all back off in favor of the stock parts because as bad as the stock quadrant was the billet stuff was was even worse? (Pretty sure I still have those parts in a now dusty box.) In past days you had to hunt down a new Motorcraft replacement cable because there were NO good aftermarket replacements. That may have changed, I haven't checked lately. All experience with Foxes. This is not my idea of "problem free" nor "fine". You guys need to get out more?

 

I have done A LOT of Fox Mustang work over the years. A LOT. I never had those problems. I made sure the cable adjusted itself correctly. I have replaced the ratchet with a metal version, but never any problems with cables. Problems with cars , many times, have to do with how they are treated. Not just on operation, but with what you see and feel. If a cable began too melt from being to close to the exhaust, I would move it. If someone is a blind idiot and just turns the key and goes, many things can happen to a car that doesn't happen to "everyone".

 

Well if you visit forums that specialize in Foxes you can pretty easily find mention of all those problems I came up with off the top of my head and I am sure more. I don't think I'd be calling the folks that experienced such problems "blind idiots" though. The instances I mentioned are issues I have personally experienced and repaired but not necessarily been on my personal car so I'll choose not to take offense at that myself.

 

No, 4 - 1Vs.

 

So for a car that is auto and never been anything but, I can put a linkage in without drilling or cutting anything? Just clarifying.

 

The pass-though for the upper pushrod is marked with a dimple, but needs to be opened with a hole punch or saw. (the punch is a lot cleaner) The threaded inserts for the frame-mounted pivot are already in the frame rail waiting for you, as is the hole in the block for the engine end (unless you have a late-model 5.0 block). The pedal support is the same either way, and the holes for mounting the assist spring bracket are already in the bracket. You don't even have to remove the pedal bracket to do the conversion, unless you are also adding the roller pedal kit (which I would recommend).

 

Yes, all manual linkages are bolt in, the attaching holes are there. Of course a lot od small parts to have everything.

 

You will need to unbolt the master cylinder for this knock out. It's for the clutch rod. Exactly like a knock out on an electrical box. Punch it with something to get it started then twist it out with a pair of pliers. It comes out easy.

 

Absolutely use a bearing kit as 22GT recommend. I have a Mustang Steve's kit in mine because my support was worn but the Scott Drake kit would be a better option for you. My kit required bearing cups to be welded on. There's also a big return spring along with a bracket that gets bolted on the hanger. I opted not to install the heavy spring but I kept the bracket and use a very light spring just to take up the slack so the pedal won't rattle. If done right the big spring is pretty easy to install or remove without any special tools.

 

If done right the big spring is pretty easy to install or remove without any special tools.

Yep. Done right it is safe and easy. Done wrong and it will maim you and anyone who is watching.

Clutch Assist Spring Removal and Installation.pdf

 

FWIW, only buy OEM cables or Maximum Motorsports ones for Foxes, at least. The rest are junk.