Usable big power on the street are much about the ability to modulate that power. Modern street cars are doing it with electronics, that's how they are able to do 0-60 times in 3 or 4 sec. I got the understanding "soft power" are also partly how those FAST racers are able to make stock sized repro bias street tires (and stock suspension) handle 800 hp from a stroked big block and do 10 sec 1/4 miles.

 

The 1st time I rode with @dobrostang at an autox I kinda had that feeling the deuce had riding with Shelby in the movie as mentioned . Although it didn't bring me to tears I was holding on pretty tight . He sports an Edelbrock top end kit on a 351w which is supposed to be good for 4somthing and change in his 66 with a 5 speed and 3.50s in a 9"

 

Don't believe a word of this - he cried like a hungry baby in a room full of bare double-ds!!! ;o)))

I was at Sears Point Raceway pulling off the track where I parked next to a 66 cobra. He was just warming up and as I got out I smiled at him and pointed to the passenger seat with my gear still on. He gave me the thumbs up and I hopped in. It was a vintage racer test n tuning for the Laguna Seca Vintage Races the next weekend. He scared the living daylights out of me and I have been in some frigg'n fast cars. I thought we were going to die when he hit turn 1 on his second lap WOT with the inside wheels barely touching the levy on the inside of the corner and dime size rubber balls of road-race compound rolling across the hood. The legend of Sears is 10 and 1/2 corners and its the half corner that will kill you. We were in a 3 figure full drift with that big block screaming bloddy murder through that half corner headed WOT into turn 11 which is basically a U turn with Jersey barriers and no runoff. I almost screamed; "let me out", literally the words were formed in my throat but my teeth were clenched too tight for them to get out. I hung in there for the full 20 minute session. No carnival or theme park ride has ever come close to the adrenaline rush I felt that day and I am quite sure my fingers left dents in his roll cage by the door. He took first place the next weekend, it was great fun to shake his hand and thank him for the ride at SP "last weekend" in front of all my friends and a crowd of people gathered after his win.

 

The bench seat (which I am never getting rid of) and lap belts might help with the tears. The lack of power steering will probably give me some too.

 

"Anything that does everything usually does nothing very well."...
Straight line acceleration, keeping it tight in the corners, and top end mph are rarely something achieved in maximum unison. Gotta figure out how ya wanna use the car. I ONCE pushed my built 289 to 140. But it took a little bit to get there; it's not a drag car. Rebuilt the suspension to a spec and it holds the road nicely but I compromised some ride, but not all of it; it's not a Lincoln. And it's not ready for autocross. I'm happy.

 

Straight line acceleration, keeping it tight in the corners, and top end mph are rarely something achieved in maximum unison.

A C8 Corvette show what's possible with modern knowledge and just a 500 hp engine. Dave Dudek does 9 sec/140 mph 1/4miles in concourse looking '71 Hemi Cuda on repro Polyglas tires. No tire spin the car just goes... mankind have learn a lot since the 60s. I'm pretty sure you could make an surprisingly fast and great handling old Mustang that still looked pretty stock, if you just put the same effort into getting all the small details optimised, as the factory engineers or those top level FAST races do.

I have followed the build of Alex Taylors new '55 Chevy Drag Week racer, it got sensors on the front/rear suspension so she (and dad) after a run with an labtop can see what the suspension exactly are doing, while also looking at the read out of the engine data. Any adjustment made to the car can afterwards be analyzed with the labtop.

 

It's a street car. That is how it will be used. So yes, it has to do a lot of things. We're actually talking about so little horsepower that I don't think a lot of sacrifices need to be made. So it won't 60ft that well. That's not what I am going for.

 

I personally would not want 4.11s in a street car, unless I was never getting on the highway. I’ve got about 400 at the crank and 3.70s in the rear. It’s a lot of fun and will spin my 225s to oblivion in first or second. I wouldn’t call it scary though, at least not for me ( judging from my wife’s face a few times, she may disagree). I’ve not made anyone cry, but at 52 I’m not trying to drive like that on the street anymore. Another 50 to 100 should do it for you. I am also after a corner carver that is fun to drive on longer trips. Have fun!

 

I know you said no traction bars, so are Cal Tracs out too?

Rusty

 

I don't know. I haven't decided. I've heard that they are noisy on the street unless you take out so much preload as to make them far less effective. But on the other hand, what's a little clunking? But yeah, if I did that is what I would be getting.

I don't go on the highway. I have 3.55s in it now and both 4.11s and 3.25s on the shelf.

Making grown men cry maybe a stretch. But the way that powerful, lightweight, RWD car behaved in that scene was alluring.

 

My little 331 seems potent and yet my car could easily be a streetable with a more daily driver orientated alignment. I can never can really put the hammer down even with 245/40/17 200 treadwear tires. @Badbenz94 recently went for a few short drives with me and I think he started adjusting down what he thought was necessary power wise for a fast street car.

 

I can attest to that!! My goal was a 500hp 347 to be built by Woody....but after a ride in Mike's car, I think it may be a little much, not sure what Mike is making but its fun! My fear has always been to not have "enough" power as my last two builds fell into that category. Im guessing anything around 400 plus at the crank will be great in a 3000lb car.

Chris

 

I think I may do a 331. I want to get my heads and intake ported. MPG Head Services is here in town, they've done well in Engine Masters competitions and have a CNC program for my heads. I already have the pricey Morel lifters and will go custom cam. Shooting for 7000 RPM. Because I like sounds. The sounds are all part of it. I'm trying to create a total experience, visual, auditory, visceral... even smells! I don't see how it's different than artwork to be honest.

 

If you really want to scare people you probably need a power adder.

 

I've noticed it's pretty tough to scare the bejeezus out of people with straight-line speed alone. The internet is full of acceleration vidoes of cars with 4-figure power levels and grip to go with it, but the passengers barely seem phased. Driving dangerously, maybe. With a 65/66 Mustang, you're not going to scare any passengers unless your car is seriously janky or unsafe.

Autocross or circuit work - totally different story. Ride along with a pro in an autocross car and you'll second-guess everything you know about what is possible in terms of a car's abilities, and it will make you hold your breath. In my first season, I had a few events under my belt, but I rode along with a very capable veteran in a near-stock Honda S2000 on a fun run. Going around the course, on several occasions, I watched the cones coming up, think "oh s**t, he's overcooked the corner entry, we're going off" - and then miraculously the car would just barely make it. Every time. Your heart does skip a beat when you think that you're going to miss an element. On a circuit, I can only imagine that the sensation is amplified as the speed increases and the risk of going off-course increases.

 

I was at Barrett year before last and an AWD Ford Focus ST was wiping the track clean with the likes of 800hp corvettes and restomods. Point being, the old cars sounded faster for sure but the time slips didn't lie. Good times.

 

if you make 325rwhp then you are near 400 flywheel, so 450hp is not a drastic change, 500 yes is a lot too ask for but still very do-able and be streetable, and i am talking n/a power out a 331c.i. is what you are looking for correct ? what is your current engine combo again ?

 

And you staying on a 225 tire you obviously are just building car to thrash on and shred some tires right ? lol. 500hp would be a handful on 225 tire but nothing too crazy to handle really. a buddy of mine has a car that makes 700RWHP on a 275 regular radial tire with complete stock chassis (not a mustang).. all it does is spin tires, but it is still very fun to ride in, definitely makes your butt pucker when it fishtails at 100+ mph lol

 

If you just want to have fun on the street a 331 or 347 would probably a better choice than a 289-302 because of the added torque. When my 331 was giving me trouble I rebuilt the 289 with some ported heads and installed it. What a huge disappointment! I went right back to working on the 331 and never put more than a couple of hundred miles on the 289 before dropping the 331 back in. Torque = fun imo.

 

My .02:

I think it's much easier to scare someone in most classic cars than in a newer car. Why? A newer car isolates you from the crazy with insulation, electronics and better suspension designs. Old cars are just raw... they are generally louder, much less refined and lack electronics that tames the high horsepower.

My car, with a 347 running around 400hp to the wheels, can be downright scary to most people not used to the "old car" experience... in reality is probably about as quick as a new Mustang GT. Nothing earth shattering. But the application of that power, with the top down, little to no safety equipment, loud exhaust and wheel spin through 3rd gear makes a violent impression on most people. I once scared a guy so bad that he refuses to ride in my car to this day. And that was when I was running the previous engine about 50 horsepower down from what I have now. Think of a it as a roller coaster.. you typically aren't going that fast, but it sure seems like it with everything going on.

As a comparison, I once drove a Hellcat and while crazy fast, the modern features of the car (suspension, electronics, insulation) make it seem slower than you're actually going. IMO that isolation make it more dangerous because you don't realize how fast you're going until you make a mistake and it's all over.

I guess what I'm saying is that much of the process of scaring someone is sensory and while it does depend on having a fast engine, that is only part of the equation. Heck, the side pipes on a Cobra alone probably add 100 horsepower to the "butt-o-meter" just on sound alone!

All the being said, I think a well sorted 347 is more than enough to scare the living daylights out of most people. It sure brings a smile to my face when I drive mine.

-Shannon

 

Fordmuscle measured a 3.2 sec 0-60 in their 400 hp project car running a weak early T5 and 8" axle. Dobrostang that are used to race his Mustang on a track wrote in another thread about his ride in a Tesla 3 and that is was the quickest acceleration from a stop he had ever experienced in a car. A Tesla 3 don't have crazy power for it's weight and run on regular 235 street tires. Making a car feel and actual be fast are not about big hp numbers or huge brakes, it's about being able to use what you got in a controlled way. It's a mix of the cars setup and the drivers talent to not use the pedals as on/off switches. In an old car without the electronic help, the drivers talent gets even more important if you want it to be fast.

Seeing people writing about just spinning through the gears, I wonder if my 347" are weak or I just had some luck with the overall setup. It's a T5, 4.11, street tire car and the most spin I'm getting out of it is 1st and sometimes a tiny bit in 2nd. I remember I way back in time on a backroad measured (with one of the old GTech's) a 6.5 sec 0-60 with a nearly stock 289' under the hood".

 

I'm at 686 HP with my '65 fastback. Supercharged 363 stroker with AC and very pleasant driving manners. Of course, if I'm in a 'see what it can do' kind of mood, I make sure that I'm in the appropriate kind of setting.

 

I agree with what everyone has said. I'm not going to be hot dogging around neighborhoods or anything but I know a number of places you can go that are deserted at certain times for a little bit of fun. A little bit. Not talking about being a dangerous maniac. Just a little sideways. Sometimes. The ability is the more important part.

I think I am on the right track. The 302 will have to do until I bolt the rest of the parts up (suspension, steering, brakes and toploader just sitting on the shelf) then I'll put more thought into the next power plant. But I've already gathered some parts for that too.

I do like my side exit exhaust, I think that adds to it. It has an h pipe but wondering if true duals would change the sound to something more racey.

 

I agree with what everyone has said. I'm not going to be hot dogging around neighborhoods or anything but I know a number of places you can go that are deserted at certain times for a little bit of fun. A little bit. Not talking about being a dangerous maniac. Just a little sideways. Sometimes. The ability is the more important part.

I think I am on the right track. The 302 will have to do until I bolt the rest of the parts up (suspension, steering, brakes and toploader just sitting on the shelf) then I'll put more thought into the next power plant. But I've already gathered some parts for that too.

I do like my side exit exhaust, I think that adds to it. It has an h pipe but wondering if true duals would change the sound to something more racey.

I know what you are saying. We took the Slingshot to the ride the Tail of the Dragon a few weeks back and it was a blast. 157hp in less than 2,000 pounds is a lot of fun. Ours has the adjustable suspension and wider tires (305 in back). My wife was prepared this time. The first couple times after we got it and I hammered it through some curves she was screaming and thought she was going to fall out. It has pretty good balance.
I am building my Mustang to have a good balance to do everything pretty good, maybe nothing outstanding. Won't be a great drag racer, won't be the best auto crosser, won't be the best comfort cruiser, but should be fairly good at all of them. There are several areas like the Dragon around that I look forward to taking on.

 

How much fun a 400hp Mustang can be:

GT350 Video

-Shannon

 

That’s a great car. So good to see it being driven.

Rusty

 

@jdub maybe start looking at things less in total numbers, and more in power-to-weight ratio and see where you want to be, or ride in a relatively stock car and as many others to decide where you want to be.
Mine has the original 289, bored a little, cammed a little more than the K was but still hydraulic, an Autolite 4100, heads with a little port and polish, electronic ignition (points set right are fine), some nice exhaust, and a snappy little build on the original C4...yeah, I'm leaving some power on the table but I'm leaving cash in my pocket with 22 mpg highway and the car gets around very well...the stock style suspension is cheap to maintain when done once with poly bushings everywhere (maybe one shouldn't at the strut rods) and it rides firm but doesn't beat me up with 620 front springs and GT rear leafs, dampened with an original set of Gabriel Stryders. I am enjoying the ride on Cooper Cobra Radial GT tires but I think it would look a little better with a shorter sidewall. So, I'm driving it to wear them out and get something else!! All in all, the car was relatively inexpensive to buy, own, drive, preserve, and enjoy, and I have surprised a few people with it.
It isn't the quickest, but is certainly not the slowest.
It isn't the fastest, but it is plenty fast for me.
it won't pull over a G on a skid pad, but I can dance around in traffic and it feels great at an on-ramp.
It doesn't float like a Lincoln but it rides very well and it's fun to steer around the biggest bumps anyway.
It's old, it's loud, and it's still got it. The car suits me.

 

I like where you are headed with this. Sounds fun. Since you want it to be a street car, I would try to keep it streetable: big displacement, 10 to 10.5:1 compression, naturally aspirated. A 351W-based stroker in the 400 ci range. That way you don't have to go crazy with gearing and you actually get some use out of first gear.

 

I'm going to be sticking with an 8.2 deck block.

Here's another video I like. No talking. Just sounds.

 

This is borderline ridiculous.

 

Borderline?

 

 

Since its mission is street car, that actually makes life easier, vs an open track car that needs to hold together at redline for long periods of time. If you want to stick to 8.2 and 7000 RPM, you can either add cubes or add a power adder. I really love your current motor. At 325 rwhp out of a 306, you've really set that up well via a combination of high compression and very good heads/cam/intake combo. I'd be tempted to put a power adder on your current engine, but not sure that will go well @ 10.75:1. When I was building my 67, I really wanted to install a Z363 (or similar build). Boss block, same small external footprint, and low 500s at the crank in a streetable configuration. When/if I blow up my 306, I'll go that route.

I can't recall if you are anti T5 or not, but another thought is gearing. I'm running a 3.70 rear gear, with a T5 with the stock 3.35 first gear. It's completely ridiculous. It makes the car feel like it has so much more power than it really does. I have a similar combo to yours, but less compression and probably 25-30 less rwhp.

If I had to vote, I'd probably duplicate what you have now - high compression, ~363 cube, boss block, heads of your choice (can your 170s support the flow of a 363...not sure), and a custom grind cam to match the set-up. Play with intakes to see what does the best on the street.