Just put points back in it. (and this advice from an electronic ignition advocate)
The odds of having another condenser failure are about zip.
High quality point set and condenser and you're done.

 

A few comments:

I'm still running points for my stock 289. Last week I blew the condenser. There was no warning, nothing. The car stalled and didn't start anymore. Not a good feeling to sit on the left line on a busy street

Good thing, I was two blocks away from my Mustang repair shop. I called him and he jumped into this car to help me fixing the issue. (Shout-out to Mitch from Mustang Fever!!!)


Anyway, I looked into electronic ignition systems for the last couple of days and read a lot of articles and posts. Some of them are pretty old and it was also interesting to see how people changed their minds based on their experience ( @zray ). I'm trying to conclude my findings, please help me if something is wrong. This might be helpful for other people in the future.


Points:
If well adjusted and maintained still a good option. Feeler gauge or better dwell meter for the adjustment recommended.

Pros:

• Concur
• Very cheap (you can have a spare set of points and condenser in your trunk for <$10)
• Easy installation, no additional wiring
• Stock coil

Cons:

• Mechanical wear down -> maintenance needed every 5000 miles or 6 months?

You drive your old Mustang 5000 miles in 6 months? My "other" car has points. I take it to local shows, Dairy Queen, etc. I think I last adjusted the points 18 years ago.


I've been working with a friend running a WC51 3/4 ton truck this year. Set up the points last Spring. Just checked last night, getting ready for an event this weekend. Still perfect.

• Weakening of the spring is difficult to measure

In my experience, the points are shot long before the spring.

• Low ignition energy

Compared to what? Dan Gurney's 427 Ford won the pole position at Riverside, ran 200 mph. Had stock ignition. Just how fast are you going to Dairy Queen?

Pertronix:
Different systems available (I, II, III). Especially Pertronix II had reliability issues, but also I and III seem to work for ever or break down after a few months.

Pros:

• Almost stock appearance (Pertronix I has only one additional cable)
• Easy installation
• Cheap
• Pertronix I runs with stock coil
• The old points can be a backup in the trunk as an easy roadside fix

I once broke down on the highway with my dual-point C5OF-E distributor. Fixed it using trash from the side of the road with a dime and nail clippers as tools. Try that with an electronic distributor.

Cons:

• Reliability issues
• Pertronix III needs a different coil and 12V line (which would not work with the points as a road side fix)

Duraspark II:
Reliable ignition system with a lot of good reviews.

Pros:

• Reliable
• Strong spark

Cons:

• No stock appearance
• Higher installation effort
• Higher costs

Can't argue with that.

MSD:
Seems like the most reliable solution.
Really? We had a guy coming to our annual show with an MSD-equipped car. Burned out. Had wife drive him home, got old MSD box out, got a few more miles, burned out.

Pros:

• Very reliable

I can tell you, one of the first things The Barn does with MSD-equipped cars, when possible, is remove the MSD.

Cons:

• Very high price
• Higher installation effort
• No stock appearance

MSD (and Accel, years ago) remind me of what my Grandad taught me about fishing lures- Most of them are designed to catch fishermen.

Please help me if anything is wrong or missing. I was not mentioning performance, better idle or warm start. Here the reviews are to mixed. Also other features (e.g. rev limiter) are not mentioned here.

 

Over the last 40+ years of driving and wrenching I have run these configurations (in chronological order):

Single point stock

Single point with MSD-5 box

Accell dual point distributor with MSD-5 box and Accell super coil

MSD distributor with MSD-6AL with MSD Blaster coil

Duraspark distributor with MSD-6AL with MSD Blaster coil

Duraspark distributor with Duraspark II blue grommet box and OEM coil

I really liked MSD in the 70s and 80s. In fact, my original MSD-5 is still running in my Father's 347 powered '66 Mustang with an MSD distributor.

I had nothing but trouble with their distributor and -6AL boxes. The distributor would cut out and not hold a curve. The 1st -6AL lasted about 1000 miles, then died. The replacement made it another 1200 miles. The replacement for that one (actually the factory repaired first -6AL that failed) started a grand total of 4 times before it died.

Every one of the -6AL boxes worked fine until I shut the car off. Next time I went to start it there was no spark.

So far I really like the Duraspark setup. I made my own harness with new plugs. The connectors and box from RockAuto ran me about $60 shipped. The car has never started easier (I am a big fan of the retard on start feature) and I don't notice any degradation in performance although I only street drive and cruise nowadays. I also like that I can get parts at any auto parts store for a reasonable price. I quit wrenching for a living in '89, but looking back I don't recall ever replacing a Duraspark II component (Duraspark I is a different story).

The only Pertronix I or II experience I have had is reading what other folks have posted regarding input voltage and leaving the key on. The Pertronix III has caused problems with my tachs due to the multiple spark feature. Pertronix did not see fit to add a clean tach signal hook-up but they do offer a solution on their website.

 

...

The only Pertronix I or II experience I have had is reading what other folks have posted regarding input voltage and leaving the key on. The Pertronix III has caused problems with my tachs due to the multiple spark feature. Pertronix did not see fit to add a clean tach signal hook-up but they do offer a solution on their website.

As I have not hooked up my tach yet, I'd be interested in reading about this. Do you know where this fix might be?

Thanks

 

Hi guys,


I'm still running points for my stock 289. Last week I blew the condenser. There was no warning, nothing. The car stalled and didn't start anymore. Not a good feeling to sit on the left line on a busy street

Good thing, I was two blocks away from my Mustang repair shop. I called him and he jumped into this car to help me fixing the issue. (Shout-out to Mitch from Mustang Fever!!!)


Anyway, I looked into electronic ignition systems for the last couple of days and read a lot of articles and posts. Some of them are pretty old and it was also interesting to see how people changed their minds based on their experience ( @zray ). I'm trying to conclude my findings, please help me if something is wrong. This might be helpful for other people in the future.


Pertronix:
Different systems available (I, II, III). Especially Pertronix II had reliability issues, but also I and III seem to work for ever or break down after a few months.

Pros:

• Almost stock appearance (Pertronix I has only one additional cable)
• Easy installation
• Cheap
• Pertronix I runs with stock coil
• The old points can be a backup in the trunk as an easy roadside fix

Cons:

• Reliability issues
• Pertronix III needs a different coil and 12V line (which would not work with the points as a road side fix)

Please help me if anything is wrong or missing. I was not mentioning performance, better idle or warm start. Here the reviews are to mixed. Also other features (e.g. rev limiter) are not mentioned here.



Thanks

I'm running the Ignitor III. Although I am currently running it using a jumper from the battery to the coil (full battery voltage all the time), it will work when used with the stock resistor wire, just not the best way to do it. I will be bypassing the resistor wire once I button up my dash. Same with the coil. You do not need a "special" coil, just one with the proper resistance, as low as .32 ohm which is said to decrease the charge time. Higher ohm coils will work as well. I chose the Flame Thrower as I was going with a new setup.

2 more PRO's for the PIII: 1) it has a built-in REV Limiter, not an accessory add-on. 2) it has Multiple Spark Discharge much like an MSD unit.

2 additional CON's: 1) Can't use solid core wires. 2) cant leave the ignition on or it will damage the Ignitor. Though the Ignitor III tells you to turn it on to set the REV Limitor, just don't leave it on for long periods of time.

Though Ignitors have had a lot of bad press about failures, most have been with the Ignitor II, and most of those were not running full voltage and/or had ballast resistors on the coil.

 

2 additional CON's: 2) cant leave the ignition on or it will damage the Ignitor. Though the Ignitor III tells you to turn it on to set the REV Limitor, just don't leave it on for long periods of time.

Though Ignitors have had a lot of bad press about failures, most have been with the Ignitor II, and most of those were not running full voltage and/or had ballast resistors on the coil.

It is the PI that has the ignition on issue. Both the PII and PIII were designed to be tolerant of the ignition being on. The PI will burn itself out if the ignition is left on without running.

From what I have seen most Pertronix problems have been with the PI with the PII and PIII being quite reliable.

I started with a PI a long time ago then switched to the PII when it came out about 18 years ago. That same PII is now in the CaliSpecial.

 

I've been running an Ignitor II for ~12 years now and it's been nothing but great (knock wood).

However, if I were going to do it over again, I think I'd probably just send my dizzy to Mustang Barn for a rebuild/re-curve and keep the points.

 

Hi guys,

"......Please help me if anything is wrong or missing. I was not mentioning performance, better idle or warm start. Here the reviews are to mixed. Also other features (e.g. rev limiter) are not mentioned here.

Thanks

I think you summarized it rather well. The only thing I can think of to add is concerning the description of the points ignition as being "low energy".

Yes, it does produce less voltage than some of the electronic ignitions. But once enough voltage is provided to make a spark jump the gap, all the additional voltage doesn't do a darn thing to help the car run better, make more power, get better gas mileage, etc etc etc.

And a points condenser ignition is not marginal in the voltage department. It provides plenty of energy to fire the plug with all carburetor engines.


Z

PS when I was running a MSD ignition with their high dollar blue HVC-II coil and the Digital 6+ box, it made so much voltage that the coil wire tower actually melted over time !!! !!! !!!

 

Mitch at Mustang Fever is the best.

In my experience, I really haven't had a set of points go bad, it's usually the condenser that bites the dust first. With MSD, the one failure I had was due to moisture getting inside the distributor cap, which seems to be a common issue with them. MSD is aware of the issue and has provided a few "solutions", but the problem seems to persist. I refuse to use their ignition boxes, one google search reveals hundreds of complaints of them burning out without any warning.

I've NEVER had an issues with the Pertronix modules I've used though.

 

It occurs to me now that I've never heard any gripes about the Pertronix distributors.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d130710/overview/make/ford

Assuming this one is reliable, it seems like a nice package that doesn't cross the line into overkill, and doesn't require a box.

 

I just used that distributor on my Ford Racing engine swap this weekend. I went with the cast looking on though, not billet. It already has the required steel gear and looks like a stock distributor. Time will tell if it was worth it.

I did use a relay using battery power and the stock wire to trigger it.

Sent from my SM-T715Y using Tapatalk

 

Funny, I've run an MSD billet distributor and a used 6AL box that looks like it spent 10 minutes in a laundromat dryer and it's performed flawlessly for the last decade.

The Pertronix 1 that was in the previous engine is still running fine, 20 years after installation (in another car).

Maybe I need to buy an ignition lottery ticket, because I seem to be the only person they work for. Well, that, or they're not nearly as bad as everyone loves to say, and maybe the world has moved on from points. I'm no scientist though, so I'm just gonna keep enjoying my car with perfectly running ignition.

 

Have had the same Pertronix 1 in my fastback since about 1992 or so. Stock coil, still has the pink resistor wire. Has run flawlessly for all that time. Used to fuss with my points all the time (they probably weren't very high quality - whatever the parts store had on sale). But I sure as heck don't miss them. Pretty sure I still have a dwell meter around somewhere, but I haven't used it in this century...

My 2 cents
MrFreeze

 

I have ran MSD 6al boxes for years, I got my first one around 20 years ago. I have never had a failure and never knew anyone that had a failure. I have seen the power wire melted to within one inch of the box (due to the guy wiring it up, stoned out of his mind) we replaced the wire and the box worked fine for years after. I am going to hide mine under the fender so it appears stock.

 

https://www.hot-spark.com/
All the Best, none of the big name BS!

https://www.hot-spark.com/

 

Maybe its just me, but this looks like an Ignitor 1 setup. $50. They do warn: Requires a 12-volt, negative ground electrical system. External Ballast Resistor: If the charging system voltage, measured at the coil's + terminal, is more than 14.0 volts at any RPM level, the voltage regulator likely needs replacing or a 1.4 Ohm ballast resistor should be wired between the coil's + terminal and the red HotSpark ignition wire. Too much voltage can damage the ignition module and other electronic components.

Points and Condensor -

...

Something else to consider, and its the only one that I would personally use, is the Mallory replacement for your stock distributor called an e-spark. Its like a Pertronix, but made by Mallory. My brother's had a Mallory distributor in his car for 20 years (actually 2 cars and 5 engines) and its a trooper. This is what I'd buy if you flat said "points are not an option".

https://www.holley.com/products/ign...ors/distributor_accessories/service_items_for_mallory_distributors/parts/61002M

And this looks like the Ignitor III, but its only for For MALLORY UNILITE distributors.

So to stay on topic, if you want to keep the factory look, but have the most current electronic features, I'd say go with the Ignitor III. You can get it for $118.99 from Summit Racing.

 

I can only comment on the Duraspark, as that's all I've ever run:

Cons:
No stock appearance

If you use the small "original" points style cap and rotor, it looks pretty stock. The coil is very close in appearance to the original points style coil, and even fits in the same bracket. The only difference is the harness and the box. You can either hide the box, or try to make it blend in. I painted mine with black crinkle paint and put it out of the way, and it doesn't catch the eye of too many people.


Higher installation effort

You have to mount the box, connect a few wires, not a big deal.


Higher costs

The distributor cost $12 (Autozone was clearing them out, I think you can find them for around $50 now), Coil was $19, Module was $34, Harness from NPD was around $125 (you could make your own). So, for around $200 I installed the Duraspark ignition. This my second mustang I've installed it on, and I'm happy with it.

 

Points and Condensor -

Its what I've decided I'm running after a variety of other stuff. Key is, you have to buy GOOD ONES. If Rick at NPD has any good stuff left from his lifetime buys of Ford parts, buy those. Else, Blue Streak from Standard. Anything else and you're asking for trouble (and pay attention, Standard has at least two lines - and you don't want the cheap stuff.) I've had cheap parts store condensors die within moments.



Duraspark -
No real experience outside of stock Ford vehicles.


Pertronix -

Blew out one myself, dad lost at least one, maybe two. No different than losing the condensor on the side of the road - you're still stuck. I pushed a 66 tbird (read not light) through a 6 lane intersection in dress clothes. Never again. Rather be stuck with $30 in P&C than $90 in Pertronix. A feeler gauge costs $6 on Amazon. $5 at Hammer Freight.



MSD -
Colloquially stands for "My Spark Disappeared". I wouldn't be willing to help work on a car with one except maybe to do brakes or shocks or something that didn't impact starting the car.


Something else to consider, and its the only one that I would personally use, is the Mallory replacement for your stock distributor called an e-spark. Its like a Pertronix, but made by Mallory. My brother's had a Mallory distributor in his car for 20 years (actually 2 cars and 5 engines) and its a trooper. This is what I'd buy if you flat said "points are not an option".



https://www.holley.com/products/ign...ors/distributor_accessories/service_items_for_mallory_distributors/parts/61002M

 

Thanks for all the answers, hints and corrections. Appreciated!

Seems like the reliability of MSD is not as good as I expected. However, we cannot make a final conclusion about reliability without knowing the numbers sold. Which is true for all of the options.


One key question is, do I want to have a stock appearance or not. If yes, points or Pertronix (and others) are options. If not Dura Spark and MSD are becoming options too. I hope this helps folks in the future to decide what to do.

 

I lived and breathed MSD for 15 years. Put the Digital 6+ system in several Shelby's and Mustangs. It never left me stranded, or anything liker that.


Yes, Moisture did build up in the distributor caps, but a fix was published by MSD, and subsequent MSD caps were revised to deal with the issue. Their customer service is first rate. Once I sent in an MSD Ready-to-run distributor for refurbishing before selling it (just my way) and they did the job pretty well, with a new pick-up module, new bearings, etc. but they forgot to pin the reluctor. Hey, anyone can make a mistake.

I called them, and they sent a FedEx guy out to pick it up and in 48 hours I had it back, fixed without costing me any shipping or any of that kind of nonsense.

But as time went on, and after I lost a bet right at a dyno where we ran the 289 K engine with the MSD and then with a stock distributor, I began to question why I had to have the MSD extra bling. On the dyno, no change in idle quality and no change in power. So I decided I didn't really need all that extra complexity under the hood. Never minded setting points ever 7,500 miles, so back to points I went.

Point is, I don't thing there is real reliability issue with most ignition systems. Yes, a small minority of all types will crap out. And once that happens to you, as it did to me with several Pertronix conversions, it doesn't matter if the failure rate is only 1%, if that 1% is YOU.

So just use whatever you like best and whatever is cost effective. More than likely, it will work just fine, whatever you choose.

Z.

 

One of my cars has an MSD6AL triggered by a Pertronics 1 in the stock C70F 12127-F distributor. It has been trouble free since 1994. I have put about 30,000 miles on the car in that time. The factory tach works fine with the MSD Tach adapter.


On the other hand I am a big fan of the stock system. Use Motorcraft points and condenser, you won't ever have to walk if there is a spare set in the glove box.

 

I have never bought into the "what if the Pertronix fails" so points are better logic.

What are you going to do if your alternator fails?

Or your battery?

Or your starter?

What if your fuel pump gives up?

As you can see many parts can leave us stranded. I am never going to worry about one particular part.

I have a cell phone and CAA

 

Well, I did it. As I put the car in the garage the other night it stalled on me, and as I still do not have my neutral safety wiring in place I have a jumper directly from the coil/distributor to the battery, I left it on all night. Just about 24 hours till I went to start it again and noticed that the jumper was still in place.

I pumped the carb, hit the remote starter and it fired right up. Pertronix Ignitor III and Epoxy Flame Thrower Coil.

 

The idea (for me) is that if a part fails, I can just hit the local parts store for a new one. On the way to the beach one day and the alternator went fizzle. Light came on and I saw the gauge so I knew what was coming. Some calculation as to where the closest parts store was and whether I could make it there. I did. Yanked the still hot alternator on the spot, swapped in a new one, and on we went. It doesn't quite work that way when you have a "1 Wire conversion" alternator and such. "Well we can ORDER MSD stuff but we don't stock any." "What's a Pertronix?" Etc.

Different strokes for different folks. People who drive tow trucks (part time) don't like to call them. Especially not 300 miles from home. I hate calling people for help anyway. Others will whip out the AAA card and/or call Enterprise without a blink. Wife asked me once what I would do if my old motorcycle suffered a major failure a couple of states away. I guessed that as a last resort I would drag it to the nearest UPS pickup somehow. Then tear it down into UPS box sized pieces and ship it home. I carry the tools to do it. I'm pretty sure most people don't think that way though.

 

The idea (for me) is that if a part fails, I can just hit the local parts store for a new one. On the way to the beach one day and the alternator went fizzle. Light came on and I saw the gauge so I knew what was coming. Some calculation as to where the closest parts store was and whether I could make it there. I did. Yanked the still hot alternator on the spot, swapped in a new one, and on we went. It doesn't quite work that way when you have a "1 Wire conversion" alternator and such. "Well we can ORDER MSD stuff but we don't stock any." "What's a Pertronix?" Etc.

That's why I initially went with Duraspark. Need parts on the road, parts stores should have them (however, that's getting less and less these days). Which is why I carry several spare parts in my trunk any more. A long time ago, when a cheap auto parts store (not Motorcraft or SMP) Duraspark box died on me while on a trip, I pulled the spare out of the trunk, zip tied it to the old one, swapped over the wires and got back on the road. When I got home, I swapped the boxes out and bought another box and put it in the trunk. It's not expensive to keep Duraspark spares in the trunk just in case, if I don't have to I'd rather not have to call a tow truck for something simple!

 

My choice for "electronic" ignition?

DSII distributor (don't forget to have the advance curves "blueprinted").
Mopar "Chrome" ignition box.

Simple and reliable to 8,000 rpm.

 

I'm late to this rodeo but here are the options as I see them.


1) Stock Autolite distributor recurved by your choice of several shops. Install nothing but Standard Blue Streak points and condenser. The points will cost you at least $20 and the condenser at least $10. If you paid $10 for both the points and condenser you bought cheap chinese crap that isn't worth wasting the time to install in your distributor. The ccc condensers have been known to be bad right out of the box so if you're thinking of keeping them as a spare in the glovebox you're asking for trouble. If you want spares buy another set of Standard Blue Streak.


2) DurasparkII distributor recurved by your choice of several shops. Use the DSII to trigger either a GM HEI or Chrysler module. That's all the dizzy does- trigger the module so it will work with any box including the MSD. Absolutely no reason the buy an expensive Pertronix dizzy. Use a mid 80's Ford TFI (EEC-IV) E-coil. I can buy used modules and coils for $5 each at my local P-N-P.

Ford designed the DSII large diameter cap to lessen the chance of crossfire inside the cap. If you don't like the looks of the large cap use a standard, small cap. With this system you don't need the high resistance Pink wire- it will run on full 12V.


3) MSD Ready-To-Run dizzy with the Ford E-coil. This is what I'm using. The "module" is internal to the dizzy and the counterweights, springs and advance limiter are located under the rotor on the MSD so it's easy to change them. The Ford DSII counterweights and springs are located underneath the plate that the trigger attaches to so major disassembly is required to change them. This system runs on full 12V.



There is absolutely no need to buy an expensive dizzy like the Pertronix , an expensive ignition module like the MSD 6AL or an expensive E-coil. A stock module and a stock E-coil will serve the purpose.

 

I'm late to this rodeo but here are the options as I see them.


1) Stock Autolite distributor recurved by your choice of several shops. Install nothing but Standard Blue Streak points and condenser. The points will cost you at least $20 and the condenser at least $10. If you paid $10 for both the points and condenser you bought cheap chinese crap that isn't worth wasting the time to install in your distributor. The ccc condensers have been known to be bad right out of the box so if you're thinking of keeping them as a spare in the glovebox you're asking for trouble. If you want spares buy another set of Standard Blue Streak.


2) DurasparkII distributor recurved by your choice of several shops. Use the DSII to trigger either a GM HEI or Chrysler module. That's all the dizzy does- trigger the module so it will work with any box including the MSD. Absolutely no reason the buy an expensive Pertronix dizzy. Use a mid 80's Ford TFI (EEC-IV) E-coil. I can buy used modules and coils for $5 each at my local P-N-P.

Ford designed the DSII large diameter cap to lessen the chance of crossfire inside the cap. If you don't like the looks of the large cap use a standard, small cap. With this system you don't need the high resistance Pink wire- it will run on full 12V.


3) MSD Ready-To-Run dizzy with the Ford E-coil. This is what I'm using. The "module" is internal to the dizzy and the counterweights, springs and advance limiter are located under the rotor on the MSD so it's easy to change them. The Ford DSII counterweights and springs are located underneath the plate that the trigger attaches to so major disassembly is required to change them. This system runs on full 12V.



There is absolutely no need to buy an expensive dizzy like the Pertronix , an expensive ignition module like the MSD 6AL or an expensive E-coil. A stock module and a stock E-coil will serve the purpose.

Wait , are you saying a stock DSII will run on 12v ? That's not what everything I've read says. I know if you use a GM HEI ,Chrysler or Ford Red grommet module you can use a 12 coil and no resistor

 

The PO of my '68 big block installed a Crane Cams Fireball XR700 module with optical trigger system. I see Crane doesn't sell these anymore so I'm concerned that the market place voiced its opinion and the system is not reliable. Any comments?

Assuming there is room for a large diameter DSII cap, what is the disadvantage (other than looks)? It just seems that if DSII components are readily available at any auto parts store in an emergency, why buy something else?

 

The PO of my '68 big block installed a Crane Cams Fireball XR700 module with optical trigger system. I see Crane doesn't sell these anymore so I'm concerned that the market place voiced its opinion and the system is not reliable. Any comments?

I believe the XR700 lives on under the FAST name. Does your setup look like this one?

https://www.amazon.com/FAST-700-0226-Electronic-Conversion-Distributors/dp/B000CC9ACK

 

I was going to convert from points to Pertronix, but read a fair number of mixed reviews. Since my annual mileage is low and points & condenser are cheap, I just replaced them. Engine does seem to run a bit smoother with new points and condenser.

On my non-Mustang motor (331), I run a Crane HI6 with an 85 mustang dizzy. No complaints there either!

 

A condenser failure is rare in my experience. Pertronix failures are not. I recurved my stock body and keep an eye on the points just like in the old days. A new set about once a year and I’m good. I’ll not go back to electronic.

 

I run duraspark...can't find any good points sets around here (really haven't looked too hard) , and I wont pay 20 bucks for a good set and then have to mess with them. Plug and play I say. I run cheap boxes, and remanufactured parts store dizzy, and "trailer plug home made harness". I also carry a spare...sometimes. I had an ignitor 1 for a long time, but fried it by leaving key on...it never left me stranded except in my garage that next morning.