The under dash spring has nothing to do with the returning. Do you still have the spring that goes to the clutch pivot fork ? And yes, the bushing could cause some binding if it's kerflunkled.

Z.

 

Thought that the under dash spring assists in returning the pedal back over center? If it's getting stuck at "center", then...? It may not be getting stuck at the point where the spring is actually assisting, but not sure so threw it in.

Yes, I have a return spring that goes from the clutch fork to the body.

 

You are correct, when the assist spring goes over-center it does pull the pedal up the last couple of inches.

Are the bushings, especially the left one, saturated with white lithium grease?

Failure at 32,000 miles is about right for a dry nylon bushing.

Having the Drake roller kit, which I have used on a number of cars, does nothing offensive to pedal feel, only to the amount of effort. The main reason I advocate it, though, is it will never go bad, as the nylon bushings do.

 

Under dash only has incidental force on the return stroke. But there could be some binding if it's bushing we shot. I'd bet on the hanger assembly bushing though.

Have you tested the pedal travel smoothness going up with the linkage disconnected ? ( Take care on the down stroke !)

Z

 

Are you using a zbar? It could be binding. Sounds like its time to refresh the entire system. The way you drive, makes sense to pull the entire system amd make sure its good...

 

Yes, I am using the Z bar. It was refreshed (new bushings, greased the felt pads, adjusted, etc.) 10,000 miles ago or so. Shouldn't have anything wrong with it if there wasn't anything wrong with it before! Visually, it looks okay to me, though it's physically impossible for me to push the clutch pedal and observe the linkage working at the same time...

The bushings are saturated with lithium grease, yes. I did that back in 2010 though - not sure how long the grease lasts?

Amount of effort is the part that I find offensive I am pretty set in my ways when it comes to how hard I am supposed to stomp the clutch. For that reason, I am almost completely incapable of driving modern cars as I will stomp the clutch straight through the floorboards... :lol: it's really very stupid. But I like it this way and am determined to keep it so.

 

I put Mustang Steve's roller bearings in my 67 a couple of winters ago because I had the same issues as you are having. Now the binding is gone and the clutch action is extremely smooth. I did not notice a reduction is pedal pressure required.

I run an original style 3 finger pressure plate with the monster helper spring.

 

Which style pressure plate does your clutch have- Long (original Ford 3 finger style) or Diaphragm?
That affects pedal feel more than anything else. I would go with a Mustangsteve roller bearing conversion instead of the factory plastic bushings regardless of which style pressure plate you have. The roller bearing doesn't wear out like those plastic bushings. And the roller bearing won't change the pedal feel from the feel of a new plastic bushing. When the plastic bushing wears out and the clutch pedal shaft starts to egg shape the pot metal support is when you will notice the difference between a roller bearing and a plastic bushing.

 

New nylon bushing and a clutch adjustment and you should be good to go. Just the usual maintenance for a driver. Brian

 

@Kelly_H Did the bushing end up being the problem? I began to have similar symptoms shortly after I read this and the times my pedal has been getting stuck has been growing since...

 

I do all my work alone too so when I need to see something that I can't motivate and see at the same time, I set up my camera, usually with the tripod, and a back light so it can see for me. Gopro's are also neat for this sort of thing if you have one.

 

put a Mustang Steve ball bearing shaft kit in

 

Sometimes I find myself with my toe under the pedal to bring it back up a little sometimes RPM alone will do it. I need to get my rod end conversion put together for the Z bar linkage. My Uncle built me a Bronze bushing for the pedal hanger years ago for 1st 66 before the roller conversion was popular.

 

Actually from an engineering point of view, a bushing is the right answer, bearings are not the best choice for repetitive low rotation rate motion, they are designed for spinning mechanisms where the bearings are in constant motion so they can't brinel or dent the mating surfaces due to an impact while sitting still. In the clutch pedal application, the bearings used are over kill for the load which is why they work and last, I designed in a bushing on my watts link because the engineer in me couldn't use a bearing like the others use. After 6 years, it still looks like new.

If I was going to design one for the clutch, I would use silicon bronze (self lubricating) or Delrin, which is what I used on the watts. Unfortunately, Ford used cheap plastic which doesn't last, if someone fabricated them in Delrin - a nylonesque plastic that doesn't absorb water, that will be awsome...

 

Just hope it doesn't look like this

For 60 bucks, a little bit of welding, the Mustang Steve bearing kit fixed her up.

 

Mine used to ,maybe worse

 

I'm a bit confused with a few conflicting claims being made here. In researching the bearing retrofit, I have been reading in other VMF threads that the roller bearings will give a "smooth" and "greatly reduced effort" pedal feel. Now I'm reading that I will feel only a slight (or no difference). If I'm going to consider the "upgrade", I'd like to know what I can expect.

 

I found the bearing replacement kits have the exact feel as the factory bushing IF the factory bushing is in good condition. But most of them are used up and way into the metal, hence the lousy binding clutch action. There's no mistake, the replacement bearing kits will be more durable in the long run. But they won't give you any reduced pedal effort over a factory set up that's in good condition.

People are comparing pedal effort in a trashed out factory clutch pedal to a brand new bearing kit pedal. Is that a fair or legitimate comparison ?

Z

 

Well depends. If you compare my original wore out binding setup to the Mustang Steve roller bearing, it was night and day difference. I also changed out all the linkages with heim joints, so that also helped reduce the pedal effort.

If your current system is not wore out and still has decent bushings, you may get only a slight decrease in pedal effort.

But for me, it was a no brainer.

 

While I'm not a mechanical engineer I understand exactly what Dobrostang is saying. I've know that for a long time. Bushings are used more for static loads or precision machining. Not many people know this but bearings actually have a shelf life even brand new in an unopened box. The effect of gravity will distort the races from one race placing weight on the needle bearings resting on the other race. I learned that from a Torrington bearing seminar.

At the end of the day it comes down to what's available and cost effective. I ended up doing exactly as 68Hildago did. I have the Mustang Steve bearing kit on the hanger and made up my own clutch linkage with rod ends. It was cheap, easy, works super smooth as well as super easy. Overkill maybe but it'll never wear out or bind up

 

While I'm not a mechanical engineer I understand exactly what Dobrostang is saying. I've know that for a long time. Bushings are used more for static loads or precision machining. Not many people know this but bearings actually have a shelf life even brand new in an unopened box. The effect of gravity will distort the races from one race placing weight on the needle bearings resting on the other race. I learned that from a Torrington bearing seminar.

I seriously doubt I'd want to be the anal-retentive math whiz trying to compute
the effect of gravity on a bearing race......
Thankfully I've got a "worthless" liberal arts degree.

 

My bet it is the bushings in the brake/clutch support. Pull it out and put a Mustang Steve Roller bearings in there. The clutch pressure will not change but it won't stick either.

 

No welding required on this kit

I also used Mustang Steve's kit but this one requires no welding and it's on sale.

http://www.cjponyparts.com/roller-b...m/roller-bearing-clutch-and-brake-pedal-support-bushing-kit-1965-1970/p/HW1015/

 

Put the Mustang Steve bearing kit in and it's the last time you'll ever have to fool around with it. And it'll work great the whole time.

 

Hmm, truthfully I forgot all about the issue until someone revived this thread! I just kind of got used to pulling the pedal back up with my foot.

If I have time this week I'll crawl under there and see if the bushing needs help. But I'm leaving for California on Saturday so I don't think I'll have time to replace it unless I find a spare lying around somewhere

 

This is the same debate that we had for roller perches, which have much greater loads, and they seem to be holding up fine. There's always a disconnect between theoretical ideals and reality. Take bolts in single shear, if you compensate for poor design by increasing their size, they work just fine.

 

Exactly right. I believe the early Falcons used a bronze bushing in the spring perch, and a bronze bushing is what Cobra Automotive uses in the roller spring perch they sell. Those are examples of a design that is superior to a roller bearing perch. However, in actual practice, the roller bearing is more than "good enough" to get the job done AND have an outstanding longevity.

I've used both types of improved spring perches. Just close your eyes and pick one or the other. There's no wrong choice there.

Z

 

I'd have rather flunked out of MIT knowing I can't be an engineer, than graduate from
Georgia Tech thinking I am one

No offense to GT grads, I know its a good school. Or replace school names with
regionally appropriate ones.

 

Kind of a long drifting thread. Kelly, did you find the problem yet. I had a similar issue last year. i used a spray can of white lithium grease and sprayed it on the bushings under the dash. The pedal got much easier for a short period of time, which led me to replacing them with bearings. Good luck

 

One problem with spherical bearings is that they have quite a bit of friction, especially under load. The better joints for race cars are designed to reduce this as much as possible, but they will never be as free as a roller/needle bearing. My Formula Ford uses a rod end for the shifter pivot, but the Teflon-lined joint was too stiff out of the box to be usable. To fix it, I chucked up a bolt in a drill to spin the race, heating it up to "wear in" the joint and get the freedom of motion I needed. You can even use some fine lapping compound if you clean it out well afterwards. Granted, for a clutch pedal they will work as well as a bushing.

 

I'll admit that I'm sorta curious about what that "shelf life" of a bearing would approximately be as a result of gravitational influences and resulting distortion. I would have to think that whatever the bearing was intended to be used for would have been replaced by technology that we can't yet even comprehend well before the bearing's gravitational expiration date ticks past. But then again, I'm not an engineer.

 

I Googled it just for fun
https://www.google.com/search?q=bea...e&oq=bearing+shelf+life&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.9582j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Wanted to update this thread now that I've actually fixed this issue!

First, I partially pulled apart the pedal assembly to check out those bushings - and they are 100% A-OK! No wear whatsoever. I regreased them and shoved them all back together.

The little hat bushing that goes on the clutch rod where it attaches to the pedal was quite worn. I replaced it.

The U-shaped bushing that the return spring sits in was cracked and crushed weirdly. I replaced it.

The problem is now fixed! I'm not sure if it was just the clutch rod bushing getting tired, or if the return spring was getting hung up at a certain point in its travel where the bushing had been crunched. Who knows.

Interestingly, I also found that my lower clutch rod was attempting to depart the clutch fork entirely. Last year, I replaced my PO-rigged lower clutch rod (which featured an oddly fat, blunt-tipped mushroom-shaped end that had been filed by hand) with the correct 1965 lower clutch rod. Well, the 1965 lower clutch rod is apparently just narrow and pointy enough to poke through the hole in the clutch fork. The clutch fork is also apparently sharp enough to carve through the lower clutch rod. So it was pretty close to almost being gone, and is probably the reason that my clutch adjustment has been so odd lately.

I put the PO-rigged weird lower clutch rod back in. It fits in the dished hole in the clutch fork perfectly. I assume that over the past however many decades, they've kind of worn together into a matched set, so the clutch fork didn't like the new correct lower rod. Who knows. The problem (that I didn't know I had) is now solved.

Not bad for an hour of work!

 

Last year, I replaced my PO-rigged lower clutch rod (which featured an oddly fat, blunt-tipped mushroom-shaped end that had been filed by hand)...

I put the PO-rigged weird lower clutch rod back in. It fits in the dished hole in the clutch fork perfectly. I assume that over the past however many decades, they've kind of worn together into a matched set, so the clutch fork didn't like the new correct lower rod. Who knows. The problem (that I didn't know I had) is now solved.

Is this one of those (oh so rare around here) times when a PO actually knew what they were doing, veering off the beaten path? We could start a thread on these occurrences.
Might make for a short thread though. :wink:

It seems what we usually read around here are tales of PO's who botched, conflamutated, or sent something to Smither & Reens.